The Kids Can Play

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I would much rather have the the bench coaches of Astros Joe Espada or Rays Matt Quatraro than the bench coach of the Royals, Reds or Pirates. I do however agree with you, this is a special job and only 30 of them. Thus the Sox better research the candidates extensive and do the proper quality interviewing to find the right one.

Well said and Tampa has always been one of those blueprints we should strive to be like.

I disagree on the manager part. If the Sox want to get better and be like the Dodgers, then yes they need to look for front office people from winning organizations, but they also need to hire managers and coaches from super successful winning teams as well.

I still want the team go younger. However for at least another year Abreu would be ok. My point was also if we trade Vaughn and Sheets, hopefully that can bring us back more young prospects.

Damn right it would make good sense to hire a younger manager from a super successful organization. Plus they won't demand or take up the higher salary that a Bochy, Maddon and Guillen would want.

I know the teams I mentioned don't have openings nor will they be open. The post was referring to our Sox manager's position was better than the Tigers or Rangers position, which it probably is. However my point I countering with was the fact we shouldn't want to be compared to lousy teams. We should strive to be a destination for a manager like the teams I mentioned.

That is not correct at all. Go back over the years and check for example the Tampa Bays Rays farm system. Even going back to the years when they had Andrew Friedman, they always had one of the top, if not #1 ranked farm systems each year. You can also go check W-L records and stats but their minor league teams were usually near the top in every league in both standing and stats. Over the years they didn't have the luxury of paying for top free agents. As a result they needed to bring players up and when they did they contributed quickly. This was because they had strong coaches who are able to develop their players. This also meant their scouting was stronger as they knew the blueprint of the type of players Tampa needed to be successful. Many clubs have done this in the minors besides Tampa. Theatrically if you develop your talent properly and efficiently, then as you bring some players up, then you move others from the lower leagues to replace them. If they are being developed, they should fit in the next level and continue to produce and be winners. I do 100 percent agree with you that the purpose of the minor leagues is to develop players. However the Sox have done a horrible job in this area. Go look at our current farm system and right now they are only a few good players that are ready to brought up and contribute in 2023. Look at Cleveland, they brought up 15 rookies this year and yet their triple A team Columbus team finished with a with a 85-64 record. Cleveland proved you can have the #3 ranked farm system, win in the minors and win with those rookies at the big league level and be a division winner 22 games over 500. I'm not saying this is the norm in baseball, but don't tell me standings are irrelevant. There is a reason the Charlotte Knights were the worst team in Triple A. Just look at their pitching staff as they had the highest ERA in Triple A. Btw, check and see the number of pitchers ready to be moved up from Charlotte and be major contributors in 2023. As far as your intriguing players in the White Sox current 26th ranked farm system, yes there are some strong potential players down there. However go look at the teams that have stronger farm systems ranked in the top 10 and not only do they have more stronger prospects to promote to the big leagues, more importantly, they also have more assets which is extremely valuable to use those stronger prospects in future trade. Finally don't tell me that the Sox farm system which was highly ranked early on in the rebuild has fallen apart only because the Sox took those players up. Go check the Dodgers to see how an organization can be successful both at the big league level with their 111-51 record (60 games over 500) and they still have the #2 ranked farm system. Btw, the Dodgers Triple A team is the Oklahoma City Dodgers and they finished the season 84-66 in 2022.

Morris Buttermaker

Holmes is right and JR does owe the fans an apology and own up to his colossal mistake. However what should happen in theory vs what will happen in reality are two complete opposite ends of the situation. The problem has always been and still remains the fact, he is the most ignorant, demented and arrogant owner in baseball...who quite frankly doesn't have the baseball credentials to be so damn arrogant, uncaring and unapologetic. Yet sadly, this is the pathetic reality of this POS owner we are stuck with, until the bastard passes away and the team is sold.

Actually I am beginning to change my mind on Abreu and agreeing maybe its the right move to trade Vaughn instead and keep Eloy as well. I have been quite adamant in keeping Vaughn and letting Abreu go on all these Abreu discussions. I know Jose's power numbers are dropping rapidly. It's sad he is going to finish 4th on the team in home runs with his career low of 15 HR's. Yet the one thing Jose has been good at it this year is consistently getting his singles an doubles. I firmly believe with the shift being banned, Jose will get so many more hits. There were way too many hard hit grounders this year by him up the middle, that in 2023 will undoubtedly go through for base hits more often than not. I also agree we can't get rid of Eloy. He needs to be DH full time with the Sox, along with coming to spring training in better shape and lighter...which just might produce his best power numbers yet. You would only consider trading Eloy if the return was so powerful, it would be too impossible to pass up. Finally as much as I hate to see Vaughn go, it might just bring back some great talent to fill some huge holes. However, Rick Hahn cannot screw this trade up, as he has with so many others. He needs to shop Vaughn aggressively to numerous teams and make sure he works each of them in a successful bidding war to get the best talent back. I hate to be negative, but I fear Hahn will screw these offseason trades up! I pray I am wrong!

The MLB White Sox page posted this as 12 possible candidates for the Sox manager's position. https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/potential-candidates-to-be-white-sox-manager-in-2023 I realize there might be others, but from reading this list the two younger ones I would like the Sox to look at seriously are: Astros bench coach Joe Espada and Rays bench coach Matt Quatraro. Although I'm sure there are even more better candidates out there.

I seriously do not think at the present moment the Sox destination is as attractive as you seem to suggest. If you want to compare us to the Rangers or Tigers as you are, then yes, it's more attractive than those two clubs. However I don't want to be like the Rangers or Tigers. I want my team to strive to be like the Dodgers, Astros, Braves, etc. (the very top tier teams.) This doesn't mean it cant be fixed and this team can be a championship contender, but its going to take a lot of work, luck and a brilliant GM, manager and coaching staff...which this team currently does not have. The realty of why this team is not so attractive is simply the following: 1. Probably the worst owner in baseball. 2. Inept GM and front office. 3. Garbage farm system, currently 26th ranked. Records: Low A - Kannapolis - W-L - 58-74 High A - Winston-Salem - W-L 58-74 AA - Birmingham - W-L - 61-77 AAA - Charlotte - W-L - 58-72 4. Going to finish season at either 82-80 or 81-81 in the worst division in MLB. Keep in mind the Sox were the 4th or 5th overall odds on favorite to win the WS by all betting sportsbooks. 5. Serious roster flaws and lack of pitching, hitting, scoring runs, baserunning, fundaments and defensive. 6. Little team payroll flexibility to spend money in 2023 to get the proper free agent talent, unless major trades are made. Having said all that, if you still think this club is the "glass half full", then god bless your loyal die-hard fandom, which I do respect, but don't agree with.

I am assuming this is your facetious response. However that wasn't a list confirming a world class organization, but a checklist to see if enough areas could be checked off to warrant a stud veteran manager wanting this job. The harsh realty is there are not enough areas to check off for a great veteran manager to covet this job! The posted question was what great veteran manager would want this team, GM and owner? Btw, if you are sarcastically implying that checklist is impossible to achieve, go examine the Dodger organization...I'm pretty sure they check all the boxes on that list.

Off their radar if they are smart and have other options! Veteran stud winning manager might have a checklist like this to examine the Sox organization: 1. Smart and aggressive spending owner willing to do whatever it takes. 2. Intelligent and successful GM 3. Strong farm system to pull talent up from 4. Solid roster 5. Team is strong on fundamentals 5. Team is strong defensively 6. Solid starting pitching rotation 7. Solid bullpen 8. Team is strong in producing runs by solid hitting, base running and power. 9. Team hustles on every play 10. Front office is into modern day analytics and has a large staff to support modern day baseball metrics 11. Organization seems to have a strong medical and training staff. I'm not quite sure one single criteria above, or very few get checked off for a veteran, winning and successful baseball manager. #1 and #2 pretty much sum up why a stud winning manager won't be excited for this job!

You forgot #6. Hopefully I'm allowed to make my own decision and my boss Jerry doesn't make the manager decision for me.

You're absolutely right even adding Rodon probably wouldn't have mattered in 2022. However that is because the idiot Hahn had the 2022 payroll polluted with several terrible contracts. Over the next few years as we lose these horrific contracts, assuming Hahn and Williams are gone, which is doubtful, and finally assuming an outside GM executive from a winning culture like Tampa Bay or Cleveland is brought in, which again is doubtful, then with top notch and successful front office, we could spend money like a #3 major market team should be spending. The harsh realty though, is if the Sox ever want to be a championship WS contender, they can't just do it with spending big free agent money. The Sox also need to become great at scouting, drafting and developing the talent to create one of the top ranked farm systems like the Dodgers. Yankees and Mets do, besides the insane money they spend. Again, as long as we have this obsolete and demented owner, none of these WS aspirations will ever happen. We already saw the stats how backwards the Sox are in spending money on the number of people for each team for their analytics dept. I believe we were last. Having said that, I would love to see stats on where the Sox rank relative to all support areas to a baseball organization, like scouts, trainers, medical, etc. Even if none of this information is available to the public, I'm quite sure the wise old Reinsdorf is near or at the bottom in all those other key support areas.

He probably is because he is still pissed he was stuck with the drunk demented two time DUI manager. Having said that, this is another in a long list of reasons, Hahn needs to be fired and he cannot be responsible for the next Sox manager.

Another disgusting and pathetic reason Hahn and the entire front office need to be fired. Our medical, training and anything else related to the health of our players, is a serious gross negligent group. These medical and training people are buffoons and they are hindering this organization of ever being a healthy enough team to contend for a world series title...regardless of whether we ever assemble a roster of elite talent. Do you think Andrew Freidman of the Dodgers as one example, with his amazing roster would allow such inept medical doctors and trainers like our Sox employ, to handle his players? Jesus F*#king Christ Jerry. Wake up and do something about this horrific front office and all the slugs it employs. It's one thing if you don't give a s%*# about your fans, but my god, at least give a s%*# about the health of your players...that you pay all those millions to.

Now there is an meeting of the minds that gives us confidence the Sox organization is in good hands and ready to get this debacle of a rebuild finally on track...going into year seven!

Not only did the FO botch this up, but the clueless and inept medical staff obviously fucked this up not understanding and educating the FO of the medical factors of arm strength and durability increasing in year two vs. year one...coming off TJS.

Yes I do and he would be worth it, since he had the surgery 8 years ago and never had one single arm issue since. The fact is if TJS is done properly, you do the proper rehab after surgery and finally the proper ongoing post strength maintenance and strengthening routine, then theoretically he shouldn't have anymore arms issues anymore than a pitcher who has never had the surgery. Ohtani had TJS and how is that working out thus far?

I do actually and I also know several pitchers have come back from TJS and had no problems in their future. The fact is that TJS was right out of high school in 2014 and he hasn't had any arm issues whatsoever in the proceeding next 8 years. Keep in mind Dylan Cease takes better care of his body than probably anybody else on this team or maybe in the league. In fact Cease learned about yoga during his rehab days after the TJS 8 years ago.

I know you have stated that before and I don't agree Cease is gone. Cease doesn't seem like the kind of player that only cares about money. I think when we get a great manager in here and better players around him, he might just enjoy staying here as long as the idiot owner doesn't go cheap on him. Btw, not all Boras clients are like robots and just do as he wants. Jose Altuve took a huge 7 year deal to get secure long before FA. The smart thing would be to see if you can lock Cease up now like we have with others on the Sox.

To clarify one important thing on Cease! IMO there is no pressure or reason to trade Cease with 3 years left, as well as maybe not for many more years beyond. I believe the upside of Cease is so huge, that to ever trade or lose him to FA could be perhaps a disaster like the Cubs did letting Greg Maddux get away. Unless something changes, the amazing fact we are underestimating with Cease, is the fact he never seems to get injured or be on the IL. His pitching will only improve in volumes, as it already has the last four seasons.