The Kids Can Play

Here is an article I found from Jesse Rogers who evidently had a conversation with Kenny before the trade. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31973594/going-hug-get-done-how-white-sox-pulled-crosstown-trade-craig-kimbrel Based on some of the quotes from Hahn and Williams, it’s seems likely that acquisition decisions are very much a shared responsibility. Whether that’s 50-50, 60-40, who knows. Is Williams directing Hahn on who to acquire? Is he just giving his final blessing? Is it a mutual decision? "I think I asked him (Williams), 'If we could acquire just one player, who's likely to move, who would you want it to be?'" Hahn recalled. "We both had the same answer, it being Craig Kimbrel." "It was Kenny, about an hour or hour and a half before the deal was done who said 'we're going to hug if we get this done,'" Hahn recalled. "After my final conversation with Jed, I wandered into his office with a big smile on my face and said something to the effect 'where's my hug?'" When Rick Hahn is eventually fired, we can all give one big group huge to Hahn. LOL

You are absolutely correct on that. Yeah I guess when TA got that home run last night, everything is back to normal. I guess Grifol doesn't think that Benintendi with his .284 BA and .350 OBP isn't that important for the leadoff role, compared to Tim's .245 BA and .286 OBP. Not to mentioned Benintendi leads the team in walks with 36 to Tim's 19 walks. LOL!

Great win and a 2 game win steak. Only 20 games under 500 and now only 11 games back from the Twins. Like in Dumb and Dumber, "So You're Tellin' Me There's A Chance!"

It's more then tempting. The game is only a -141 on the moneyline at my sportsbook. Civale has a 1.72 ERA in July.

I totally agree with you and stated this a few times already. Schultz just went 4 shutout innings last night. It makes no sense to not at least bump him to Winston-Salem for the rest of the season.

Clevinger, because right now teams buying seem to have placed a huge demand for pitchers. Based on how he pitched last night, he will bring good value if Hahn doesn't screw it up.

You're absolutely right. That is major part of the culture problem on the Sox. Our scouting and drafting is seriously flawed. The good teams like TB, LAD, and others make sure they scout the right players, that besides being good baseball players, they are also good solid people with a strong desire to win and strong mental toughness to not let excuses hold them back.

I hope so too. Mike Chernoff from Cleveland would be another outstanding one to come in who understands the Rays system approach. Sadly it probably won't happen because our owner is too ignorant and stubborn.

I'm sorry, that is not the point at all. The original poster wasn't asking about other organizations, he was asking about his Sox team. We all know there are bad teams out there, but I'm pretty sure many of us don't give a sh*t about the other teams. We only care about our teams being run poorly and losing all the time.

You're missing the point. Yes some free agents get traded as rentals before trade deadlines but not all of them. My point was Giolito wanted to play here and didn't want to be a FA. Pitching is the most important position and hardest develop. We had a solid starter who was never injured. More importantly, he had probably one of the best attitudes on the team. He gave more effort than several other lazy Sox players all combined. My issue is the Sox FO should have signed him to an extension a year or two earlier, before it ever came to down to Gio being a FA. Unfortunately as its been implied on here, since Gio was a player rep and knowing how much Jerry hates player reps and unions, it was obvious Jerry was going to force Gio out and trade him. Btw, don't tell me it's silly on your theory that all FA's are traded all the time. If you go look at the success of the Braves back in the 90's, it was because the GM John Schuerholz always resigned his three star pitchers before they came close to free agency. I am referring Hall of Famers, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. Finally with all due respect, please don't tell me about no more hatred on JR and RH. I am not the only one here who despises these two. Both of them have done a horrible job destroying this franchise and making the Sox an embarrassment in all of sports, especially for the third major market. If you don't want to hate on them and think they are doing a fine job, then fine, that's your prerogative...but don't ask me and others to follow your path.

Yes hopefully next season with a new manager, pitching and hitting coach.

Thanks, great stuff. Sadly due to the antiquated system Rick Hahn and Chris Getz employ, our scouts will never see this, nor understand it.

I agree with you. Most Sox fans do not want to hear about another total rebuild. The Sox already are dealing with a huge negative image. Thus if JR, Kenny and RH were actually going to keep selling off before the deadline, there is no way they are going to let us know, until we actually see if with our own eyes. As long as they keep dumping players, they might as well keep dumping more. This way you are assured of continued improvement of this horrible farm system and also assured of finishing the season bad enough for the lottery chance at the #1 pick.

Hey Tim what is your definition of control? Your season sure doesn't look to be in good control!

A fellow poster made a great point about the Sox bleak reality of our catchers in the minors. He said this might be a good time right now, if Jerry allowed good money to be spent on bringing in ex-great defensive catchers to work with all the catchers in the farm system during the off-season and spring training.

You're damn right this is where Jerry sucks. The reason he sucks is because he is completely ignorant in his delusional thinking, that the loyal path in a front office is through promoting within...when "within" is always losing and unsuccessful. Your points about the Dodgers are spot on when it comes to development. The brilliant thinking of the Dodgers ownership many years ago was when they decided to recruit and hire the best GM in baseball in Andrew Friedman and make him fully in charge of baseball operations as their president. When JR figures that out, which he probably never will, then maybe the Sox could also be great like the Dodgers.

My bad, you're right the loser is over 500, but barely. In the 43 years his overall record is: W L % 3355 3325 .502 However since winning the World Series in 2005, his record from 2006-2023 is: W L % 1324 1433 .480 Since 2011 his record is: W L % 906 1040 .465 In the 43 years he has had 22 winning seasons and 21 losing seasons. Here is the breakdown of all seasons since 1981: Year TEAM G W L W-L% Finish GB Playoffs R RA Attendance Managers 2023 Chicago White Sox 105 42 63 0.400 4th of 5 12 439 522 1,016,135 P.Grifol (42-63) 2022 Chicago White Sox 162 81 81 0.500 2nd of 5 11 686 717 2,009,359 T.La Russa (63-65) and M.Cairo (18-16) 2021 Chicago White Sox 162 93 69 0.574 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-1) 796 636 1,596,385 T.La Russa (93-69) 2020 Chicago White Sox 60 35 25 0.583 3rd of 5 1 Lost ALWC (2-1) 306 246 R.Renteria (35-25) 2019 Chicago White Sox 161 72 89 0.447 3rd of 5 28.5 708 832 1,649,775 R.Renteria (72-89) 2018 Chicago White Sox 162 62 100 0.383 4th of 5 29 656 848 1,608,817 R.Renteria (62-100) 2017 Chicago White Sox 162 67 95 0.414 4th of 5 35 706 820 1,629,470 R.Renteria (67-95) 2016 Chicago White Sox 162 78 84 0.481 4th of 5 16.5 686 715 1,746,293 R.Ventura (78-84) 2015 Chicago White Sox 162 76 86 0.469 4th of 5 19 622 701 1,755,810 R.Ventura (76-86) 2014 Chicago White Sox 162 73 89 0.451 4th of 5 17 660 758 1,650,821 R.Ventura (73-89) 2013 Chicago White Sox 162 63 99 0.389 5th of 5 30 598 723 1,768,413 R.Ventura (63-99) 2012 Chicago White Sox 162 85 77 0.525 2nd of 5 3 748 676 1,965,955 R.Ventura (85-77) 2011 Chicago White Sox 162 79 83 0.488 3rd of 5 16 654 706 2,001,117 O.Guillen (78-82) and D.Cooper (1-1) 2010 Chicago White Sox 162 88 74 0.543 2nd of 5 6 752 704 2,194,378 O.Guillen (88-74) 2009 Chicago White Sox 162 79 83 0.488 3rd of 5 7.5 724 732 2,284,163 O.Guillen (79-83) 2008 Chicago White Sox 163 89 74 0.546 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-1) 811 729 2,500,648 O.Guillen (89-74) 2007 Chicago White Sox 162 72 90 0.444 4th of 5 24 693 839 2,684,395 O.Guillen (72-90) 2006 Chicago White Sox 162 90 72 0.556 3rd of 5 6 868 794 2,957,414 O.Guillen (90-72) 2005 Chicago White Sox 162 99 63 0.611 1st of 5 -- Won WS (4-0) 741 645 2,342,833 O.Guillen (99-63) 2004 Chicago White Sox 162 83 79 0.512 2nd of 5 9 865 831 1,930,537 O.Guillen (83-79) 2003 Chicago White Sox 162 86 76 0.531 2nd of 5 4 791 715 1,939,524 J.Manuel (86-76) 2002 Chicago White Sox 162 81 81 0.500 2nd of 5 13.5 856 798 1,676,911 J.Manuel (81-81) 2001 Chicago White Sox 162 83 79 0.512 3rd of 5 8 798 795 1,766,172 J.Manuel (83-79) 2000 Chicago White Sox 162 95 67 0.586 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-0) 978 839 1,947,799 J.Manuel (95-67) 1999 Chicago White Sox 162 75 86 0.466 2nd of 5 21.5 777 870 1,338,851 J.Manuel (75-86) 1998 Chicago White Sox 163 80 82 0.494 2nd of 5 9 861 931 1,391,146 J.Manuel (80-82) 1997 Chicago White Sox 161 80 81 0.497 2nd of 5 6 779 833 1,864,782 T.Bevington (80-81) 1996 Chicago White Sox 162 85 77 0.525 2nd of 5 14.5 898 794 1,676,403 T.Bevington (85-77) 1995 Chicago White Sox 145 68 76 0.472 3rd of 5 32 755 758 1,609,773 G.Lamont (11-20) and T.Bevington (57-56) 1994 Chicago White Sox 113 67 46 0.593 1st of 5 -- 633 498 1,697,398 G.Lamont (67-46) 1993 Chicago White Sox 162 94 68 0.580 1st of 7 -- Lost ALCS (4-2) 776 664 2,581,091 G.Lamont (94-68) 1992 Chicago White Sox 162 86 76 0.531 3rd of 7 10 738 690 2,681,156 G.Lamont (86-76) 1991 Chicago White Sox 162 87 75 0.537 2nd of 7 8 758 681 2,934,154 J.Torborg (87-75) 1990 Chicago White Sox 162 94 68 0.580 2nd of 7 9 682 633 2,002,357 J.Torborg (94-68) 1989 Chicago White Sox 161 69 92 0.429 7th of 7 29.5 693 750 1,045,651 J.Torborg (69-92) 1988 Chicago White Sox 161 71 90 0.441 5th of 7 32.5 631 757 1,115,749 J.Fregosi (71-90) 1987 Chicago White Sox 162 77 85 0.475 5th of 7 8 748 746 1,208,060 J.Fregosi (77-85) 1986 Chicago White Sox 162 72 90 0.444 5th of 7 20 644 699 1,424,313 T.La Russa (26-38), D.Rader (1-1) and J.Fregosi (45-51) 1985 Chicago White Sox 163 85 77 0.525 3rd of 7 6 736 720 1,669,888 T.La Russa (85-77) 1984 Chicago White Sox 162 74 88 0.457 5th of 7 10 679 736 2,136,988 T.La Russa (74-88) 1983 Chicago White Sox 162 99 63 0.611 1st of 7 -- Lost ALCS (3-1) 800 650 2,132,821 T.La Russa (99-63) 1982 Chicago White Sox 162 87 75 0.537 3rd of 7 6 786 710 1,567,787 T.La Russa (87-75) 1981 Chicago White Sox 106 54 52 0.509 3rd of 7 8.5 476 423 946,651 T.La Russa (54-52) 3355 3325 0.502 You can rationalize all you want about Jerry Reinsdorf's success, but the overall report card is bad. It's time for him to move on. He still is the worst owner in baseball.

Ahh, looks like some roster additions to the Barons and Knights might allow them both to win a few more games and improve on the Baron's 33-59 and Knights 38-60 W-L records. ?

That credit goes to the FO savvy of Chris Getz and Rick Hahn!

Nothing much to be proud of when Reinsdorf has the most Sox victories as an owner and yet he is well under 500 for his career. I guess Jerry deserves a participation trophy!

The 2016 rebuild is officially over!! There is no more window of championship contention. Btw, when you go check successful rebuilds of teams that did a complete teardown...they never took more 8 years before they won a World Series. Next year will be year 8 in the infamous Sox rebuild. Plus trading off major players like they are doing right now, constitutes the rebuild is over. There will be no talking to Hahn at the parade. In fact, if there is a parade ever again, it will be with a new owner and/or GM. With all these trades right now the only thing the Sox are doing is a mini version of rebuild 2.0 or a mini retooling! Going forward is all about waiting for the dust to settle and see if the person behind the initial trainwreck rebuild, will be here next year to continue his further destruction and setbacks to this organization.

I agree and it better or Hahn really botched this trade deadline.