The Beast

I guess we will have to wait until the end of the year to see the changes. I would love to see Renteria get a chance now but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Kenny Williams getting fired and JR selling the team would help, but I honestly think the Sox will move in the next ten years. I went to the Cubs game today because of my fiancé and can't see the Sox competing and staying afloat financially even though deep down I hope they do and get families to the park since that's where I think they can compete with the Cubs. Do you guys think we need to worry about a move?

Time to dump Ventura and get some experience after the season.

Do it. EJ sucks and you're trading a teenager. So what if they get some salary added on the books?

He plays in the NL? Trayce Thompson is an outfielder, we need an infielder. Fine with the trade, they have bigger issues than trading him. Like a closer that blows a HUGE lead?!?

QUOTE (South Sider @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view. My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with. Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off. Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois. Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc. However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be: Tuesday 1PM-11PM Wednesday Noon-10PM Thursday 8AM-6PM Friday 6AM-4PM Saturday 5AM-3PM Sunday Monday Off There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year. I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job. I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy. I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually. I am at work at lunch and would love to respond to this later after I read your paper. Please send when you're able to. Great post!

This is definitely an interesting thread. Let me start out by saying that I moved out when I was 24 to be close to my job downtown and rent an apartment in Chicago, like most other suburban kids do. I am one of five kids and am the longest tenured kid living on their own in Chicago. I graduated in 2011 with a BA in Business Administration/Management from a private school in Iowa. I had gone to a public school in Illinois for two years and transferred home after I felt lost in what I wanted to study and do with my life. My grades were fine, but I didn't know what to study. I went from Marketing to Secondary Education in English to Corporate Communications and then decided to study business. I decided that I no longer wanted to be an English teacher (I am not much for literature but am good at writing), didn't want to be a sports journalist or a broadcaster, as I was told I wouldn't be able to make the kind of living I wanted in those professions and really, I couldn't see myself living the life of a reporter. I was fortunate to transfer home and go to one of the best community colleges in Illinois for a semester and take some business courses while I checked into different schools. The private school where my brothers went to in Iowa had offered me a scholarship to go to school and another scholarship to work on campus in the sports information department. I had a better time at that school than I did at the public school in Illinois and aced my grades to the point where I still graduated in 4 years. I landed an internship with the St. Louis Rams that didn't pay (my graduation money paid for a hotel to live in for three months) and determined that working in sports wasn't for me and then decided to go try PR and marketing. I had two internships while living at home, one at a PR agency and the other in marketing for a start up. The PR internship landed me a job at the start up I was doing marketing for and I made a little over minimum wage for a year while living at home. I decided that I didn't want to pitch to the media, write site copy or SEO for a living so I got a job at an EAP company administering FMLA. I worked there for three years and got promoted once, but left after I hit the ceiling and wasn't promoted to an actual client service position. I made about $40K when I left and was able to live downtown in a few different apartments. I had one roommate to start, then three other roommates (one eventually was my fiance) and I now live with my fiance. I am extremely frugal and sometimes I don't go out on the weekends and stay in. We also go to the store weekly and only eat out on a Friday or Saturday. I now work in insurance and make more than before and overall, I am happy with my position (even though I have had thoughts about helping people as opposed to working in a cubicle all day). I am now getting married next July (paying for a lot of it) and am moving to the suburbs while renting an apartment and trying to decide if I need to immediately get a car (we'd live by the train and she has one) and if I want to go back to school. The reason I am telling this story is because this is from the perspective of someone who had their undergraduate degree paid for. I lived with my parents for a little over a year after I graduated and they started charging me rent when I got a full-time job with benefits. My parents were happy that I took charge and moved out because I did what I said I would do - move out by the time I was 25. They have paid for graduate degrees for my siblings (a few who have lived at home) BUT my siblings have to pay them back for that and they pay for their bills, cars and help out at home. The other sibling and I are the only ones who are living on their own, but my sister had lived on her own and is now becoming a teacher and my other brother is doing the same thing. It's just going to take some time because of the amount of full-time teaching jobs there are in Illinois right now...my fiance was lucky to just land a full-time one in the suburbs. My other brother just graduated in a hot medical field and will be able to support himself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think it's okay to have people from my generation (the "entitled" millenials...not all of us are), live at home as long as they are doing something to better themselves and get a job to move on their own. Illinois' economy is rough for teachers and a lot of people and jobs are leaving. So of course there will be people my age, younger and older living at home. If I did it all over again, I would have gone to the community college for 1-2 years and then went to a better school so that I could find something more career focused. I'd also add that a lot of jobs from trade schools and associate degrees in the medical field allows people to earn more out of their program than some college graduates. Looking back now I guess it was a good idea to get a business degree, but I think it would still have benefitted me to get a degree that enhanced my skills, which I felt something in journalism could do. I'd probably just use those skills towards a different career like marketing since I had no intention to be a reporter. It's also interesting that so many people go and get graduate degrees but they may never pay off, which is why I am not sure if getting an MBA or a Health Administration degree is worth it right now. If anything, I am probably going to take it a course at a time and do my master's slowly, so that I don't have what people call a BA or the new high school diploma. Anyway, sorry for the rambling but I figured I would share this.

The White Sox are like strippers, they tease you just enough to get excited, only to leave you disappointed in the end.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 24, 2016 -> 10:43 PM) I don't think the Sox players have quit at all. I think some fans have quit because they think the season is one series even one game long. Tge reaction is just ceaxlzt at times. We play 162 games and will struggle at times.begat builds character and a team. Hahn knows what we need extravl and will work on it. I haven't quit (I'm just pissed) but they've lost lots of series in a row...making tomorrow a huge game!

What happened to the days when they could get players like Dye, Konerko, Ordonez, Lee and Thomas who could jack one? I hope they draft a hitter this year and scout better for position players. I'm tired of all of the failures, lots of other teams get it right, why can't the Sox?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 24, 2016 -> 10:14 PM) Spanky, I'm not sure that's called for, lol... They're still in 1st by 1 1/2 games. I don't think anyone expected to run away with the AL Central. It's not called for but it makes me feel better, lol...they better start acting like they want to contend.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2016 -> 10:10 PM) Offense has so many holes right now. There is nothing on the bench that can help, as do you really want to see Sands vs Kluber? No, I want to see Navarro versus Kluber and Avila riding the bench until he learns to hit again.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ May 24, 2016 -> 10:06 PM) I fully expect them to get it going on the road. I don't know why but I just feel like they need to get away. You better be right. Some of these guys are an absolute embarrassment and need to wake up soon. Avila sucks and the team doesn't bat together as a team. It's like they have a cold and haven't hit together as a ball club for three weeks. Wake the hell up or I'll have to yell out like the old thread used to say - Motherf***ing b****ass Passionless White Sox!

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2016 -> 10:02 PM) That fan who got the foul ball was funny. Looked like he was saying "it's mine. I don't care." More like I got the ball, Napoli. Enjoy the win you prick!

This is f***ing embarrassing. They were down by 4 runs. 4 RUNS! The other teams in the central can put up that amount of runs and pick up their ace. The bullpen even kept them in the game. Get pissed off and go win tomorrow or have a f***ing fun trip in KC.

What reasoning do you think Cub fans have about coming to the Cell to see a game? I swear, whenever I go to the ballpark I see a Cub fan. I think it's that they enjoy baseball and that the Cubs are out of town, but I don't understand why they go to the Sox games. I think, I'd never wear my Sox stuff to Wrigley unless it's the Sox playing the Cubs. 34,000 people is pretty sweet, I hope attendance can stay up and they climb to at least 23rd in the standings. Apparently Ventura was disappointed in the attendance at Sale's last outing.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ May 22, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) I've always believed that, the Sox would have had a Bonanza in the Burbs. The biggest mistake was building the new park at 35th and Shields but after Addison turned down the move the Sox had no other choice. Would Oakbrook have been an option? I wish it was in the suburbs, at least they would have built bars and restaurants around the park. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter, I only don't like going south of the ballpark. It was never going to be Clark street anyway.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 22, 2016 -> 12:26 AM) It doesn't work bringing the fans in the upper tank down to the expensive seats. Once a person in an expensive seat sees in the second inning he has some room to spread out, he doesnt want some family coming down and cramping him. my take. Let me be clear that I am talking about areas in the lower deck where that are rows of empty seats, because there are definitely those. They'd have to know their analytics well to see how this would work out and where people could sit. And I wouldn't say the lower deck is "expensive," not with all of the coupon codes that are out there. I got $49 seats for $22 to sit 4 rows from the field in right. I never pay full price for a Sox game anymore and always sit in the lower bowl.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ May 21, 2016 -> 11:49 PM) Well I think you could've pushed the deal to just make it between you and the Reds. No one else was going to trade for Frazier. I am glad I get to catch Thompson live now as I live in LA and have gone to a couple of Dodger games because of him, but I thought it was an overpay for the White Sox since the Reds had no other suitors for him. I really felt like the Reds got the short stick of the deal and LA made out the best with the Sox coming in second. I think because Andersom wasn't in discussions a third team was needed. And that lineup that was mentioned with Carter, Semien, Eaton and Thompson, that's a great lineup. Hopefully they won't have to deal talent like that in future transactions and can have them for the future. Trade some pitching for a change if they have some studs.

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I was thinking of a few things regarding the attendance today when I was at the park. First off, there were 27,631 people there today. It was a beautiful day and it was a Saturday day game against a divisional opponent that travels well and the Cubs were out of town. Given that the park holds 40,000, what do you all think is a good crowd, considering the upper deck doesn't ever fill up on a consistent basis? I think anything north of 25,000 is a good day at the ballpark. If they could average 25,000 that is respectable. I did wonder what you all thought about giving fans in the upper deck the opportunity to come down and sit in the empty 100 level seats after the third inning of games when it's not sold out or the lower bowl is a decent size crowd. Does that negatively impact anything? Does it cause a problem with the value of tickets if they did this once in a while? And, I saw this article today - some cool history here and it's nice to see both parties get something done for a change. Do you see the Sox ever having an issue like this come up again with new ownership and having to move?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 21, 2016 -> 08:37 PM) Ramos might be the only one (along with Jansen) you can get for less than $50 million on a 3 year contract. With Robertson's presence for another two seasons, hard to imagine they'd invest another $10-12 million per season on a reliever with all the other positional holes. Santana probably will have his option picked up for 2017, especially if the Indians make the post-season. Bringing back Gio a 3rd time would be pretty humorous...and result in a Shark-like season in the AL. It does go to show how hard it is to find catching solutions that are not just band-aids. Even someone like Francisco Cervelli is earning over $10 million per season. Great posts as always. If the Sox would draft and get the Schwarbers, Bryants and got the Solers and Russells of the world, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in with respect to talent in the minor leagues. I would love if they had some depth at catcher that was productive and not just imported stop gap players.

The only players that appeal to me are: Kenley Jansen Gio Gonzalez Carlos Santana Josh Reddick Colby Rasmus Ian Desmond Matt Wieters Wilson Ramos I don't know much about the minor league system that we have but I hope that at least one or two of the guys you've mentioned can come in and contribute. I don't regret trading Thompson to get Frazier either - they needed smeone to play third that didn't suck. Who knows what will happen, I just hope they draft better, play better and get better overall. Otherwise, we'll have to hope they sell the team when JR passes.

I heard something at today's game about Ventura making a comment about the attendance after Sale's last start. Does anyone know what was said?

When I was at the ballgame today I almost wondered if Hahn should eventually consider trading Sale to get a kings ransom while they still can. If they did that it would signal a white flag for several more years but at least they would have some more talent at different positions. I look at this club and I see weaknesses at catcher, starting pitcher, relief pitching and temporary weaknesses at second base, first base and center field. Maybe some starters and relievers are in a funk, but they definitely need some more positional talent up here. I hope that the almost 23 million that is going to be off the books for LaRoche and Danks next year will allow them to sign some more free agents, but I would prefer that the Sox organization would scout better and get more than just pitching each year. If they suck at picking positional talent, why not trade with teams like the Northsiders that have a surplus of positional talent and don't have as good of pitching in the farm system? I definitely think Abreu, Frazier, Lawrie, Avila/Navarro, Rollins and Jackson need to step up. It's not good when Abreu can't get guys in with no outs and the bases loaded and Sands, a AAAA player gets a hit. I know that baseball is streaky, but these guys really need to improve from tomorrow going forward if they want to stay in this thing. I don't think getting someone like Ryan Braun (some rumor the other day talked about him...where would he play?) would be necessary to trade the farm for this year either. It's just time for guys to start hitting and everyone being more consistent in order to win.

If only Sparks and Stevenson could tell all of the jackasses to stop swinging at the high ones and missing on balls in the dirt...Lawrie, Abreu and Avila need work. Avila looks completely lost at the plate, at least Abreu has good defense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 20, 2016 -> 10:41 PM) Yes but we swept a meaningless 3 game series late vs. KC. It was 6-1 before that. When the Sox are the real Sox (not the team that started 23-10) it seems they waste so many run scoring situations. This is huge, folks!! You've got to whack a lot of home runs to win. Only way we were gonna survive that was with the big four pitching as they did during our amazing April, first week of May). Sale, Q, Rodon and Latos were lights out! Had me dreaming of a WS vs. the Cubs. Mental midgets since Robin brought in Carroll. If Carroll isn't on this team, I don't think we blow a 5-run lead with six outs to go. As expected, that was the season (til the Sox prove otherwise). Year after year it seems that is always the case. Chen, all those stiffs the Twins trot out against us (prior to this year and half of last year). Surprised nobody mentioned the Royals showing their supremacy by hitting their hated nemesis, Lawrie. Royals beaned him and said in effect, "f*** you Lawrie. f*** you White Sox. We are here to sweep your ass." Of course we didn't immediately retaliate. IMO the Royals won the series when they hit Lawrie and set the tone of WS champ beating the first place pretenderes. So far mental midgets since the Texas disaster. The LaRoche haters need to turn over the dinner table. How can anybody argue with Fathom on this? Mr. Sale? Please lead us and kick some clubhouse ass. True. I think we all hate to see us blow the big lead so quickly ... even though, seriously, the standings mean LITTLE to nothing until mid July for goshsakes. I have a pet peeve tonight. I watched the game (sparing you my angry commentary on purpose) tonight and the Sox were b****ing about strikes. That pitch Frazier b****ed about was a f***ing strike. That last pitch to Eaton was a f***ing strike. I love Adam, but hey, swing at a pitch that close with two strikes. I do not think the ump was that bad. My own obsesrvation ... I despised Melky last year, but when he was hitting .320 I was pushing for him to bat second. Still wouldn't mind him there. Folks ... having Abreu bat second is just stupid and silly. I read the entire game thread and commented on the posts that intrigued me. I really feel I'm right on my posts. Comments? Let me just say that there are significant holes - catcher, relief and starting pitching to say the least. The Sox also need a home run bat and lack some power. Abreu is not feared and everyone is in a slump right now. They need some home runs, more consistent pitching and guys to wake the f*** up. They need to win at least six of the next 11 to stay in this thing...it could be a huge blow if they perform poorly. Long term, guys like Jackson, both catchers, Latos, some relievers and a few others will go and they'll need to add again. I almost feel like they need to spend like crazy next offseason in free agency or make some moves to get younger and shake things up. It's still "early," but this is getting ugly. I'm going tomorrow and hope that Gonzalez doesn't get lit up.