LittleHurtCG
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Posts posted by LittleHurtCG
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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
If your contention is that Chris Sale never hurts himself, signs another cheap and long terms extension and that Quintana never goes bad because they stay with the Sox, this probably isn't much of a discussion.
I'm saying their were paths for the team to strike lighting in a bottle in 2018 when Sale was still in his prime. I showed a path on how that could work. Crazy things happen in baseball all the time. How many "experts" had the Sox winning it all in 05?
You seem content with the results of the tank job which is fine I suppose. Most of the hardcore tankies I talked to said the Sox were on the path to be juggernauts like the Cubs and Houston.
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26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
And in your world, he gets TJS, we get nothing for him, and lose him as a free agent. Seems way better.
Sorry you can't see any alternatives. That seems to be the problem with many of the hardcore tankies. They don't seem to understand that baseball isn't yet played on spreadsheets and prospect ranking aren't gospel.
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25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
The tank also got them half of this team which wouldn't be here, and they would have still sucked.
You have no idea on whether or not they would have sucked if they never tanked. Things could have been much different if a new front office and scouting team was brought in.
Again, they tanked a whole freaking season only to draft Nick freaking Madrigal. Lmao.
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3 minutes ago, black jack said:
Don't tell me there's no money.
-sign Correa
-sign Bellinger to play left
-move Anderson to 2nd
-Colas to right
-keep our bullpen and top prospects
Sounds pretty good damn good to me.
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1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:
"And here comes Grifol to get Graterol". I'm sure Benetti will have fun with that one and Stone will audibly roll his eyes haha
You gotta fit Grandal in there somewhere as well.
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1 hour ago, Highland said:
To me, Sale had anger management problems that he sometimes brought to the mound with him. This trade was, and is, still fine with me.
As with White Flag Trade, the tank showed again that the Sox failed to develop young players, and that is one reason they had to trade for young players on other teams. If the team doesn't want to spend mega bucks on free agents, they have to spend it on developing a farm system and building from within. Are they doing that?
Chris Sale was an absolute stud. Miss watching that guy pitch every day on the South Side. Best Sox pitcher I've ever watched in person.
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22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:
No, tanking is the way. It is the best way.
Tanking>>>>>>>Mediocrity.
Tanking gives the fanbase hope, even if misguided. Mediocrity crushes all hope. You are arguing for more mediocrity and I can't agree with that ever. Things have to get worse before they get better.
If at first you don't succeed, tear it down and try again.
Tanking is a legit option if you know how to draft, scout the international market, and develop players. The Sox cannot do any of that well therefore tanking is not an option for them.
Another tank job by the Sox will only give the gullible fanbase hope.
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16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:
I'm fine with re-tooling as well. Even a soft rebuild where they're getting MLB ready young talent is fine. If they wanted to blow the whole thing up, I wouldn't care.
No more tanking. It is not the way. Losing 95 plus games only to draft guys like Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn doesn't work.
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28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Ervin Santana had an ERA of 8 in 2018. You are paying him $13.5 million.
Flip Santana in the offseason after his strong 2017 to a team in go for it mode. Get a guy like walker Buehler or Jack Flaherty
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28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
I asked for something that would be better than what we got. I haven't seen it yet, even with hindsight.
Well you might not be able to see it, but I certainly can. I haven't see any AL Pennants or World Series banners yet with the rebuild either.
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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
So your payroll is $50 million higher, so a $160-$170 million payroll? $12 million for Turner, $14 million for Cruz, $13.5 million for Santana, and $8 million for Morton, and that's probably a wild card team and Cleveland still outguns them? Yup.
Cleveland likely outguns them in 2017 for sure. 2018 is another story as the division was wide open. Sox get in and anything can happen as Boston doesn't have Sale.
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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
And that was going to be more productive than 2 playoff appearances? Um, ok.
Maybe? You asked for some ideas and I gave provided some.
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3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
The current host on MLBN is a White Sox fan. They just discussed the team. Hes more depressed than any of us and is flabbergasted at their lack of aggression. Said this is the most significant offseaon of his lifetime
Don't know about most significant offseason of a lifetime. Was he not alive a few years ago during the Machado/Harper debacle?
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10 minutes ago, Snopek said:
I mean, the lightning in a bottle phrase is literally referred to as such because it describes something that is extremely difficult or unlikely.
Maybe the tank/rebuild was destined to fail because of the schmoes running the show, but they're the same schmoes that would have been running whatever the alternatives were.
I understand the phrase lighting in a bottle perfectly fine. It is the only way this organization as currently construced will ever win a championship. They can't draft and develop players worth a damn and they can't afford to eat at Michelin star restaurants every night like the big boys. Lighting in a bottle with a veteran team is the only way.
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34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
So your starting rotation is Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, James Shields, and um...yeah?
That'll put the fear of god into that 100 win Cleveland team.
No. Like you said they could have signed Charlie Morton and found a way to get a guy like Ervin Santana a couple years earlier and while he was still good.
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4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
What are you adding to that team to make it a playoff team in 2017?
Trading Carson Fulmer and Carlos Rodon for Nelson Cruz. Trade for a guy like Jonathan Schoop at trade deadline. Sign Justin Turner and Kurt Suzuki. That is a start anyways.
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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Sale had TJS. We know what happens to him. Quintana was never the same after 2016. We KNOW that.
What else are you adding and where are you getting them from?
Sale didn't have TJS right away and Q was still a valuable player. We don't know know what would have happened if the Sox didn't go into tank mode. We do know that they tanked in an attempt to copy the Cubs and Houston and failed miserably.
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24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
So you have nothing? Firing Rick Hahn isn't a JR approved move.
I just gave you something. Sorry if you disagree. They could have done a number of different things besides tank. They could have continued the 2005 approach and struck lighting in a bottle again. Sale and Q was a nasty 1 and 2 punch in the rotation. We will never know what would have happened if they didn't tank.
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1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:
Its back to - sometimes things don't work out - but if you knew the factors they should have done so much better. But even than - sometimes when things don't work out - it means you have to spend a bit more, if you truly intend to contend or you have to get way more creative. Doing nothing...well often times that is the absolute worst strategy (not that we should be surprised cause that largely has been what the club has done.
I agree 100%. There is no incentive for the FO to do anything creative. There is no fear of losing their jobs. They can and will do nothing.
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11 minutes ago, shago said:
Unfortunately, pure speculation of course, but if you believe what Google tells you, they had an operating loss of roughly $10M in 2021, but that doesn't factor-in all their income, so have to imagine it's pretty close to fully loaded. That's a total guess by this moron...
Didn't all the MLB teams just get a bunch of Disney $?
JR and company can the raise the budget and make it work if they really wanted to. Billinoiaires always seem to find a way.
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51 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:
Honestly - I love Liam, but just like Gio and moving him if the package was right, I have zero problems with this deal. I go back to - we can all complain about JR and Hahn and all of those complaints are real.
But if they are working with 180M or 190 or whatever it is with the holes they have - they are going to have to get more creative because you can't just do RH speak and say well it is what it is so we are rolling the dice. If those are the paremeters you have been given, that is more than enough to win in this league and you got to go do it. No excuses.
I kind of go back to - if those are the orders, than you got to create flexibility so you can add the parts that aren't there and probably at certain points maybe package another contract with a marketable guy to create even more of it. For example - if you have a $180M payroll floor, I don't see how you can justify keeping Yoan around, even if it means selling "low" on him - you need the payroll flexibility. If you can package him with a Gio or Hendricks than you might have to assess it and deal with the reality of a slightly different return or different ways.
You might need to do the same with a Joe Kelly, unless of course you like the value you have with him as a bounce back (which I can respect). But if you need to - package Kelly with Giolito (especially if you are sending him to a bigger market club).
This FO can't get creative. They don't have the talent or skills to do that. They can and will RH speak all day long. They have been doing it for almost a decade now.
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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:
Yoan is pretty much the canary in the coal mine here. Of all of the players we need recovery from, he is the one that may well show up as an indicator as to how good this managerial team is.
How long of a timeline do you give the new coaching staff to fix all the Sox broken players?
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17 hours ago, Tony said:
Aaron Judge, Cody Bellinger, Michael Brantley, Joey Gallo, Kevin Kiermaier, Andrew Benintendi, Brandon Nimmo and a slew of others are all available. The Sox could have plenty of OF's if they wanted them. Trading their closer to fill that hole is only necessary if you aren't willing to spend money.
Stop justifying things that shouldn't be justified.
This times 1000. The Sox are going to need a legit closer if they want to win anything significant. Trading Hendricks is dumb.
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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:
I will even give you hindsight here. What JR approved moves could the Sox have taken to make that mess into a playoff team in a shorter period of time than the rebuild did?
Fire Rick Hahn the second he brings me the idea of tanking cause he saw the Cubs and Houston doing it. A new front office could have build around studs like Sale, Jose, and Q.
I also don't need the benefit on hindsight. I was against the tank from day 1.
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6 Years Since Chris Sale Trade
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Blind luck and few savvy trades and free agent signings and the Sox could have had a chance. Instead they rebuilt and became the Minnesota Twins for two seasons and the whipping boy of the AL West in the postseason.
Tanking wasn't the only way.