[2023-24 NFL Season Thread]

2 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

If all their resources - scouts, analytics, etc. come up with Maye as the #1 pick - he should be selected. If he is overlooked because Mitch also played at UNC, and they’re scared of the narrative, Poles may as well resign immediately. We cannot have people scared to fail. The Beara should be so confident in their selection that theyre willing to overlook that.

I agree, but this is so much easier said than done. People make high level decisions based simply on a narrative all the time. 

I think Poles is gonna play it safe and take Caleb #1 though. 

[2023-24 NFL Season Thread]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Just because of Howell...?

Mitch Trubisky. The kid with the rocket arm from North Carolina..

[2023-24 NFL Season Thread]

23 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I was listening to Matt Hasselbach on this morning.  He brought up an interesting point - basically he thinks Maye is an absolute physical stud.  So he puts Maye in the same light as Herbert / Allen from a pure physical gift perspective. Not saying his on field performance is necessarily all the way there - but that when you think of his age, what he can do, how he spins it, his character, etc - he really has everything. He might be a bit more raw - but he's also still super young and for those close to him - he's likely still growing.  

In Hasselbach's eyes, Maye is one of the most talented QB's to come out in the draft in the last 5-10 years (he didn't say Caleb wasn't either) - but basically he said - these 2 guys are going to grade out massively well.  If that is the case - his view was, Bears SHOULD keep that view extremely close to the vest so the rest of the league (specifically Washington doesn't know) and essentialy force Washington's hand.  

In short - Hasselbach thinks Williams & Maye are elite QB prospects and doesn't differentiate much between the two.  Pure tools he thinks Maye is BETTER.  So if Washington really wants Williams - play tough - and get the #2, #40 (2nd rounder which was the Bears), and a #1 next year (this is probably realistic - if you really pushed - maybe you could get both 2nd rounders this year - but that might be a lot less likely).  He had Bears than trading Fields (lets say for a 2nd and 3rd).  

Now you are looking at Bears having 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds in '24.  

#2 - Drake Maye

#9 - Weapon for Maye (OT/TE/WR) or you can take Top Dline 

2nd Rounder (from Washington) - Center or Defense

2nd Rounder (for Fields) - Deep wideout draft - so could go that or you could go safety (Ejax replacement)

3rd Rounder (for Fields) - BPA

3rd Rounder (Bears) - BPA

In 24 Bears have - 4 Picks in 1st 2 rounds 

Own 1st Rounder

Washington 1st Rounder

Own 2nd Rounder

Carolina 2nd Rounder 

Note: They may even have 1 more higher end pick - depending on the value they could extract from Washington.  I will caveat - I think what is proposed above is NOT unrealistic.  It assumed Fields goes for a 2nd and 3rd rounder (which i think is a reasonable assumption). It has Washington giving up a 1st next year and 2nd rounder this year - which I think is in the ballpark.  I think anything less and it isn't worth it for the Bears to make the move and I certainly could see scenario(s) where the Bears could get a bit more.  

I don't see the Bears trading down to take Maye. Maye went to school at North Carolina and that qb experience already failed miserably. Probably pretty dumb to base a decision on something like that, but it will 100% play a factor in Poles thinking. The storylines will write themselves if Maye struggles in the slighest. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

4 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

 

This is pretty spot on. Apathy and exhaustion runs deep in White Sox nation right now. Are a bunch of tourists and loop office workers gonna be rushing out to fill a stadium of a team that is one of the worse and least exciting in major league baseball? 

45 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/02/08/white-sox-likely-would-have-to-change-state-law-to-get-taxpayer-funding-for-new-stadium/

Allen Sanderson, a senior lecturer at the University of Chicago who studies the economics of sports, said he’s skeptical any new sports venue, including a new downtown White Sox ballpark, can on its own generate billions in new investment.

“Usually when you hear the figure someone gives you on a project’s economic impact, it’s best to take the decimal point and move it one spot to the left, so you end up at about 10% of the original estimate,” he said. “That’s probably what’s going to happen.”

And if the White Sox want to fill a huge new ballpark, ownership will have to field a better team.

“I hate to say this, but at the moment, all five of our pro teams suck. They’re just unwatchable,” Sanderson said

No changing of the law for JR and his billionaire cronies. He can afford to pay for the stadium on his own or find a way to finance it without taking the taxpayers of Illinois for a ride once again. 

[Cease To Padres per Passan]

Why aren't we talking about extending Dylan Cease? Give the kid a nice extension in a few months if he is having a good first half. He can hold down the rotation until Schultz is ready and the Sox sign Corbin Burnes in the offeason. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

They can draw these things up and make them as nice as they want to make them look, the problem is, they cost a ton of money. They are saying the 78 development has a $9 billion price tag. If they build the drawings, you could bet it would be a lot closer to double that. And how much would it cost to fix the stadium for the Fire? These are pipedreams unless some private fund rich person or persons step way up.

You nailed it. These are all pipedreams until it is time for someone to pay up. When is the last time the city and state pulled off a 9 billion dollar private/public development? 

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

I don't give a s%*# about the Bears personally, but I'm curious where on the lakefront this would be. I'm all for erasing the ugly spaceship from the Soldier Field colonnades, but a lake front location doesn't seem to solve their supposed issues.

Another lakefront stadium for the Bears seems like a pipedream and like you said doesn't solve many of their current issues. It sounds like the Bears are having issues with financing and will go wherever they can milk the most out of taxpayers. 

58 minutes ago, Jake said:

Not to carry too much water for JR, but I do think this factoid of no $100M is partly just due to circumstances. Hahn seemed to be a true believer in conservative payroll management and I suspect someone else in charge could have convinced Jerry to go big on a contract somewhere along the line. And presumably he was willing to give someone like Machado over $200M (i.e., Sox didn't get him but I assume the offers were made in good faith and not just for the purpose of leaking out "we tried" afterwards). Sox have had fairly high payrolls in the very recent past. I've been frustrated with how the Sox never hit the accelerator when the window was open and no doubt Jerry could have opened up the pocketbook further, but I also think the guy he just fired was telling him the plan was good.

The Sox never had any intention of signing Machado or Harper. "The $$$ will be spent was all a sleight of hand by JR and company. 

23 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

A few things

• Anyone thinking the $50M is an issue needs to leave the conversation
• The government will fund infrastructure upgrades that they would for any development.  This will be viewed as the taxpayers handing money to JR but they would be wrong.
•  The White Sox and Bears are in a race for ISFA bond issuance
• Not seen in this message - who own Related Midwest ----- the Miami Dolphins----- who could position themself to buy all this up when JR visits his ancestors ---- Stephen Ross ---- as we learned in the movie JFK ---- follow the money

The way JR runs his sports teams has zero correlation with this project.  The yelling at the cloud crowd need to understand this.  This was proven with the UC deal.

The Metra schedule is not that conducive currently.  I can walk to it but I still drive and park for free.  Make the experience better (schedule wise) and I'm on the train.  I also would drag my boat home from Michigan for a ride up the River. 

Why do the White Sox need bonds from the ISFA to build a new state of the art stadium? I thought Jerry had the financing all lined up and is ready to cut a billion dollar check? 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you think Jerry is going to tank a deal that could be worth billions between the stadium, the franchise value, plus the real estate developments over something less (and maybe nothing by the time this starts) than $50 million that is laughable.  That's a down payment.

I mean this a owner who still hasn't given out a $100 million contract. Color me skeptical that he would write out that check for 50 million from his own pocket. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't know if it's possible, but getting the following to happen would be wild:

• Sox build South Loop Stadium
• Bears shift from Arlington Heights to lakefront, which Crain's just did a report on
• Spaceship is removed by Soldier Field, converted to public parks/athletic fields (suggested in Crain's)
• Fire move to the converted GRF, some parking lots converted to housing

That'd be such a crazy, positive turn of events from the Arlington Heights + Nashville narrative

First I've heard about the Bears wanting to shift away from Arlington Heights. Didn't they already buy all the land in AH and do a bunch of renderings of what the new stadium and surrounding area would look like? 

Where would they go on the lakefront? Would they put a massive domed stadium right on the lake? 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That $50 million is also still being actively paid off.  These funds wouldn't be required until the process for the stadium began.  At worst, someone has to cut a check for the balance.  Even if they had to pay it today, $50 million isn't going to be the thing that breaks a deal here.  That's absurd.

Part 2 is that you are confligrating an 8 billion dollar development with the cost of the stadium happening somewhere between $500 million and a billion dollars, probably on the lower end of that guess due to no roof.  The cost the Stadium Authority would be dealing with is the stadium itself.  The rest of that cost would be separate projects (whether it is one large other project, or many smaller ones within a larger product) legally unrelated to this one.  Even if JR is in this other project, it also allows him to still pass this on to his kids while selling off the White Sox.  It would totally be separate financing and everything.

Who is gonna cut that check for the remaining balance on GRF? I don't see Jerry lining up to do that. Also, the stadium would still exist in Bridgeport without a tenant and without revenue coming in. 

So the State of Illinois and/or City of Chicago would be part owners of the new stadium? Like I said, good luck with that.

The private develepors are also going to be asking for $$ from the State and City. $$ that doesn't exist without new taxes or some sort. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

14 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

Well, this is both exciting and scary. WGN has confirmed that that the sox and the bears are in competition with each other. Both franchises are hoping any potential new baseball or football facility would be financed (in part) by tapping into a “unique binding clause” that governs the I.S.F.A. If the  bears wind up winning this partial financing thingy I believe that would cause the Sox no other choice but to leave Illinois altogether. I hope Reinsdorf has a lot of “friends” in Springfield. 

It's pretty crazy to see both the Bears and Sox lining up for handouts from the State of Illinois. The State does not have hundreds of millions of dollars just laying around to give to Jerry McCaskey or Jerry Reinsdorf. 

The Sox won't leave Illinois if the new stadium plans fall through. There is nothing wrong with GRF. The thing that is rotten about the Sox is ownership.  JR is using this new stadium ploy to drive up the value of the Sox. Hopefully the dude just sells the team sometime soon and screws off. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

As I said before,  it appears the goal is to utilize the existing tax structure for the new stadium. 

There is still 50 million dollars to be paid off on GRF. They are talking about this development being a 8 billion dollar project. No existing hotel tax is going to come close to covering that. Also, would the State and/or city then own a major share of the ballpark? Most owners seem to want to own their new stadiums outright these days. 

29 minutes ago, Highland said:

I think this is important. I am not in favor of the White Sox getting public help without sinking more money into this franchise. I don't care about a new stadium if a fourth-place team is playing in it and the ownership is making a ton of money. 

I find a great deal of this offensive. The team comes off a 101-loss season, and then it plays the Nashville and new stadium card?  Work needs to be done on this team. Do it already and then we can talk about a new stadium.

Agree 100%. JR and company need to worry about putting a competitive team out on the filed first and foremost. The Rate would bumping and packed every night of the Summer if the Sox actually had a fun and exciting team to watch. 

JR is going to be in for a very rude awakening once it comes time to talk about the financing. This is not the 1980s anymore. The political and economical landscape of the City have changed tremendously since the 1980s. There will be very little appetite for public funding on this. 

[Sox Mount Rushmore of (Recent) Failure]

2 hours ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

If there was a way to somehow represent the failed Friends & Family Plan attempt at Machado, that would be my etrant. I guess either one of Jon Jay, Yonder Alonso, or Machado works as well. 

Yeah this was the prequel to the failed rebuild.  "The money will be spent" Yadda Yadda Yadda. 

JR is supposed to be an amazing businessman no? If so, then he know all along that no player was going to turn down 50 million in guaranteed $$ to play one season with his BFF and brother in law. 

[Bobby Witt Jr signs 11Y/$288M extension with KC]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/news/the-biggest-contract-as-owner-john-fisher-has-handed-out

Largest All Time Athletics contract: Eric Chavez $66M in 2004 (signed by prior ownership, about $100M inflation adjusted). The White Sox $75M Benintendi deal is dead last in terms of 2024 dollars.

Coco Crisp (2010-2016) was the highest paid player by John Fisher at $53.25M, though this was earned over multiple contracts.

Billy Butler ($30M) was the largest contract Fisher signed and honored. Yoenis Cespedes ($32M) and Khris Davis ($33.5M) signed larger contracts, but both were traded before the deals expired, and Khris’ contract was reduced by about 1/3 or $10.5M due to the 102 game owner lockout in 2020.

And the Benintendi deal is already looking like a major flop and one the Sox would love to get out of. It seems like Jerry's main focus is on getting a new stadium lined up. No major signings are happening on the South Side anytime soon. 

[Bobby Witt Jr signs 11Y/$288M extension with KC]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Obviously not a good thing for the White Sox, but glad the Royals were able to do this.  I’m all for starts sticking with their original clubs long-term and not just immediately signing with the Yankees, Dodgers, etc. upon hitting free agency.

Yep. This is great for the Royals and great for Witt Junior. Dude is an awesome young player and fun as hell to watch. 

Bad bad news for us White Sox fans, however. We are already discussing trading Dylan Cease instead of giving him a contract extension. The Louie Robert trade talks will pickup steam next offseason as well most likely. 

[Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They don't have a surplus of pitching. They do have a surplus of pitchers similar to Cristian Mena though. 

They do? Mena just turned 21 and has 130 innings at AA or above. I'm not seeing anyone else in the Sox minors with similar experience at that age. All of their other "similar" pitchers are two or three years older than Mena. 

[Gregory Santos Traded to Mariners for P Prelander Berroa, OF Zach DeLoach and 69th pick]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

So Crochet is the new closer?

Not a bad idea. If he is doing well then the Sox can flip him at the trade deadline. 

[Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

People in the Cease thread were saying we had enough pitching (it's not true) and that's why we should be targeting bats as first 1-2 or 3 pieces in a Cease deal. 

The Sox don't have enough of anything lol. They should be targeting dudes with high extremely high ceilings in any Cease trade. JR will never ever pony up for elite talent in free agency. The Sox are going to need to find their elite talent from within. 

 

[Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher]

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

If it were, we probably wouldn’t be hearing that Getz is insistent on getting pitching in return for Cease. Quantity =|=  quality. 

Exactly. Has anyone looked at who is filling out the roation after Cease? Half of the guys currently on the White Sox pitching staff are likely to be totally out of baseball or lingering as nothing but organizational depth in the minors within the next two-three years. 

Noah Schultz and maybe Nick Nastrini are the only guys who look like potentail difference makers down the road. The rest look like a bunch of Jonathan Stievers and Spencer Adams to me. 

[Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Or the Dodgers in 2025...

Yes. The Dodgers are perennial World Series contenders. White Sox on the other hand... 

[Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher]

Not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that the Sox have a surplus of pitching. Teams  with a surplus of pitching, if something like that even exists, either have top 5 farm systems or are perennial world series contenders. The Sox are neither of those things. 

[Sox looking at building in South Loop]

24 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Depends on the demographic. People with kids and us old people, no. Younger ones without kids, yes. 

Yep. The current setup at GRF is very kid friendly. Pretty easy to park and head right into the stadium. A stadium in the south loop is going to awesome for the younger crowd. Not so much of a draw for suburban families and old timers. 

[Cease To Padres per Passan]

4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

Concur. We all know guys like Snell, Montgomery, and Bellinger will never happen in a million years, but they should have spent more on 1 year deals for a few more players with upside potential. This organization has already shown that they do not have the infrastucture in place to do a total rebuild. Trying to catch lighting in a bottle is the only way forward as long as JR is the owner. 

 

[Cease To Padres per Passan]

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

If the going rate for Burnes is an old, low-ceiling IF prospect, a high-variance project arm, and a (n essentially) second round pick, then it's reasonable to hold Cease for the deadline. Deadline markets tend to increase the value for pending free agents, but there's always a premium for the second year of control. Yes, there's risk, but the Sox have to try to do better than what's on the table now -- and if Cease is healthy and effective, they likely will.

Let's say Cease has a rough first half. Do you take something similiar to what the Brewers got for Burnes at the trade deadline or do you keep demanding your way or the highway? 

[Grifol, Sox out to prove doubters wrong in 2024 (Merkin Optimism Series)]

39 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I always thought that Hinch was Hahn’s guy but Jerry overrode him and hired TLR.  But after that, I did think that Hahn chose Grifol.

Never should have fired Ricky Renteria. 

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I heard a guy whose boss told him what to think, and he did. 

Hahn was a loyal employee and a yes man for a long long time. He should have been fired before the Sale trade was ever made, but good on him for getting a nice fat paycheck for another 7 years. Good for him, terrible for Sox fans. 

[Cease To Padres per Passan]

The rationale for not trading Cease at the deadline last year was because there would be more suitors available in the Winter, correct? Now we are a few weeks from Spring Training and the rationale is to wait until the trade deadline as teams will be more desperate for pitching then? 

Makes no sense to me.