Sports Guy

Nah. I just thought it was hilarious how wrong you guys were and it entertains me to see you all twist yourself into a pretzel as to why this deal is so good even though 2 months ago you would have whined like a baby if it was suggested to you this would be the deal. All the s%*# you guys talked…you deserve it to be thrown back in your faces, just as we would have deserved it if you got the bigger deal you felt you would get.

Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off?

You had to take it. Too much potential and upside not to. It’s not a bad deal, it’s just not close to what most of you all said you wanted and would get.

Yea some would have for sure. I’m amazed how many baseball fans really don’t think that highly of Cease. I saw a lot of talk on twitter from all fan bases. I had to defend him a lot to other Os fans. Some really think he’s a back end starter. It’s really head scratching to me, especially in this day and age of stat analysis and all the info at our disposal.

I mean, it does suck but I don’t really think anyone who lives in the Chicago area, run by some of the dumbest people on the planet, really should be talking about other cities.

Spot on. Something I said several times was to not get hung up on prospect rankings.

I think you are overall correct on everything you said here. I agree that it’s fair….but that was always the point. The expectation many on here was “unfair” and that is what we kept trying to tell you. This came reflected what Cease has been for most of his career, outside of 2022 and that is what we always said the value was going to be.

No top 25 guys? I’m shocked! Quantity over quality deal? I’m shocked! Received a ML player in the deal? I’m shocked! Didn’t get 2 top 100 guys(well FG has 2 of them, no one else I believe)? I’m shocked! This deal is absolutely not close to anything any of you wanted or said you would get. You all jumped on me when I said you weren’t getting Mayo or Basallo. “how do you know”. You jumped on me when I said you weren’t getting that level of prospect. Reports were the Os offered the WS the Burnes deal plus another player. Who knows who that player was. I felt Beavers was possible but it was a guess. I can you guys preferring this deal because of youth and some upside. No issues with that but this deal isn’t really better. It’s just different. Either way, i am glad you guys got to trade him and didn’t get stuck with an injury or something like that. Zavala is the key to the deal imo. Thorpe should be a solid but likely unspectacular starter but Zavala has real upside. Os have 4-5 similar offensive lottery tickets. I do wish the Os had stepped up and challenged this offer but Thorpe is higher profile, at least for now, than McDermott and Povich and they may have needed that guy in the deal. @Chicago White Sox I’m sure you aren’t happy but appreciate the conversation over on our board.

What do you know about Ortiz and his hitting?

Correct. And I agree he shouldn’t have headlined any deal for Cease.

I have to say, I have appreciated your perspective on things. Have tried to steer people to your twitter account too. What is funny is how respected you seem to be by people on here yet none of them care what you have to say about all of this. It’s very odd. Anyway, good stuff.

I’m not arguing..I’m discussing and they addressed me as well, so I’m not going to ignore them. Keep crying though. It’s about the only thing you can do.

Well technically last year was his age 24 season, as baseball age is defined what you age up to July 1…he turned 25 a few weeks later. Btw, your point is well taken..maybe Madrigal is good at age 24…or maybe he’s not. Plenty of guys peak in their early 20s and decline after that and it’s not like his instruction was top notch either. Either way, it’s lazy to say they are the same, therefore Ortiz isn’t a good prospect or won’t be good.

Ortiz right now only has MiL numbers. So, if you are going to compare the 2 players, which your board is trying to do, that is the set of data we have to go by. Whatever the reasons are, Madrigal wasn’t as good as Ortiz in the minors. Now, I don’t doubt they screwed him up. The Os did that for 25 years. But if you guys want to make the lazy comp, that’s what you have to go by. I don’t even disagree with what you are saying and I don’t believe you have been one of the people making that lazy comp but others are and that is the info you have to use, at least as part of the evaluation.

Maybe but since many of you guys foolishly try to compare the 2, all things are on the table. If people weren’t some lazy in their evaluation, it wouldn’t be mentioned.

Not really if you think about it. I bet they trade Adames and get a ML ready starter. They should have a solid pen, have good upside (although unknown for sure) in the rotation and they will be able to hit some. How the young arms develop will be key but they still have a playoff window in 2024..it obviously is closed more without Burnes and Adames and that division has some rising teams but Milwaukee could still make some noise.

That’s fine…but it doesn’t change how the 2 players performed in the minors and again, talking about how you guys wanted to value Ortiz and the bashing of his stats and saying he has no value, it was all foolish. Saying you prefer younger talent is extremely sensible to me. But saying he isn’t good or trying to comp him to guys who just aren’t as good at similar stages of their career is just wrong. It always was.

I don’t know that nothing close to that was offered. My guess is one of Cowser, Kjerstad or Westburg was the lead…Hall probably was in the deal. And the third piece probably depended on the first piece. But I just think Getz wanted more. If he could have had Cowser/Kjerstad, Ortiz and Hall or Westburg, Hall, Beavers and he turned them down, he’s a fool. That is way too much value coming back to say no to. But all reports, that’s a deal he definitely could have said no to. No way you go into the season risking injury or poor performance and walk away from those deals.

I only bring up Mateo to say that someone with an elite glove and no bat had a higher ceiling than what was said about Ortiz. Sanchez was never close to Ortiz with the bat in the minors. I know he was younger but just saying, he wasn’t close. Yep, Madrigal was a bust, no doubt. He was also never close to Ortiz with the bat in the minors. The thing about Ortiz is the batted ball stats. He was in rarified air last year with the combo of his contact rates and exit velo numbers. These aren’t things to ignore. I don’t know if Madrigal, with his mediocre MiL numbers, had those types of stats. End of the day though, Ortiz clearly has value and is clearly viewed as an asset by most around baseball. Even if some lists barely had him outside their top 100, that doesn’t mean they don’t think he’s a good player. Again, it makes sense for the WS to not target him(and btw, we have no idea if they did or didn’t). However, it makes no sense to act like he’s not a good talent or a worthy piece in a trade, which many on here did. Clearly those people were wrong and they look rather foolish at this point, considering he was a big piece in a deal for an ace level pitcher, one who is better than Cease. Ortiz may end up not being much more than a UTi guy who sticks around for his glove. But I’m going to guess he out WARs many top 100 guys and many of the players you guys are clamoring for in a Cease trade.

Mateo, with a far worse bat, was worth 3.3 fWAR a few years ago. Ortiz has a higher ceiling than you are saying. I have no issue with anyone here not wanting him because of his age. That’s fine and it’s not something that I really disagree with for you guys. However, that’s a big difference between saying he’s similar to Lopez or Madrigal. You never know how a player will develop but Ortiz has the defensive ability to compete for a GG at 3 different positions. He has high exit velos and contact rates. The issue for him right now is that he hits a lot of ground balls. He has to improve on his launch angles. Now, as he does that, will he lose any of the other stuff that makes him successful with the bat? That remains to be seen but he’s a very good talent and can do a lot of things for a winning team. I think that was always the point and it’s Frobby’s Point. He is a talented guy that is ranked around or ahead of many of the players you guys have kicked around. Again, I get that some of them may be 2-4 years younger but I’m talking solely about the talent, not the age. Id be pretty surprised if Ortiz wasn’t an everyday player that is successful. His defense will keep him around for a long time.

I hope they don’t try to get an extension done…and Burnes wants to go to free agency. Boras guy.

Fair to say the second 2 were being offered. Or maybe they were trying to move Westburg, Hall and Beavers (something like that). I have said I think Getz waiting is playing things correctly and maybe this all works out but it’s looking more and more like he overplayed his hand. I tried to tell you guys he was never going to move Mayo. The extra year of a worse pitcher isn’t worth a top 25 prospect who will be up and helping the ML club this year. If Getz was still asking for that, as has been hinted (although clearly never verified) he overplayed things here. But maybe this is the best thing that could happen. I do think the Yankees will feel the pressure here.

Well to be fair, you would get a little more for Cease because of the extra year of control. The Os are better off with this deal though. It’s smarter.

Or maybe these guys are better and have higher ceilings than you guys have wanted to admit?

He’s trying to see how dumb teams can be…but yea, he’s dreaming. I had wanted the Os to acquire him for the last few years. I’m a big fan of his but even with that, he doesn’t throw a ton of innings in most years and has a big walk number. His stuff is so good that he gets by with it but I wouldn’t even give him what NY has already offered.