77 Hitmen

We've all wondered this. Here's my take: The main problems with JR is that he's insular, stubborn, loyal to yes-men, out of touch with how to succeed in MLB today, and penny wise-dollar foolish. For a long time, he's had a standoffish relationship with both the media and the fans. He bristles at criticism and IMO has just shut them out at this point. So, local media and fans raking over the coals over the state of the team doesn't mean much to him. Loyalty over demanding result has long been a criticism of him. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it's no way to run a MLB franchise. This is how people like TLR, Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn, Cooper had jobs way past their expiration dates. Approaches that led to success in 1983, 1990-93, and 2005 are outdated in the 2020s. It's not like he's never spent any money on the team. He did allow the payroll to balloon up to the top 5(?) or 10(?) during this recent failed rebuild. But he doesn't want to invest in things like player development, scouting, or difference-maker elite free agents. Locking up young talent to big extensions before they've proven anything in attempt to avoid handing out huge contracts has blown up in their faces over the last 5 years. He doesn't want to see the value of the franchise sink, but he thinks getting public funding for a new stadium will reverse that. Losing 121 games is embarrassing to him, but only further justifies (in his mind) his argument to the public that the White Sox cannot compete at their current stadium. And finally, owning the Sox is his life. He has clearly said so. For that reason, and for tax purposes, he's not selling while he's still in good health. So, we're stuck in baseball hell until Jerry's time is up. We can only hope that he is indeed lining up a transition plan to have the Ishbia brothers become the next controlling owners of the White Sox after he's gone.

I don't disagree that Rate Field would be ranked near the bottom of most, if not all, MLB ballpark rankings, but how is it "decaying"? Also, Tropicana Field is better than Rate Field? I don't know about that. IMO, Rate Field is a nice enough ballpark, especially the lower deck. But it's rather forgettable to anyone who is not a Sox fan (or perhaps even a Chicagoan who isn't a Sox fan, but doesn't blindly hate them). What makes it better than most other MLB ballparks that would warrant it being ranked anywhere out of the bottom 5? The neighborhood isn't bad, but it really doesn't offer much of anything to the fans other than ample parking and proximity to train stations. But many other MLB parks are near train stops, too.

You forgot to mention that the 78 is practically a Superfund site (based on past posts that I've read here).

Have all those suites ever even been totally filled? I want to say that at least about 10 years ago, there were some of those suites that were still empty. Also, I have read rumors that JR rejected an option to build a Camden Yards-style ballpark. But I have no idea if that's true or not. I agree with others that the lower deck, especially after the renovations that were made 20 years ago, is pretty nice. But it's still a "meh" park overall. We love it because we love the White Sox and it's our team's home. But, outside of our fanbase, it's a rather forgettable stadium in a rather forgettable neighborhood.

It was even worse when the upper deck went up to row 29 and there wasn't much of an overhanging roof! One of the problems w/ the UD is that the entrance from the concourse is at the very bottom. Other ballparks have nosebleed seats, but not many have you climb 21 rows to get to your seats.

There certainly isn't a shortage of articles that rank the MLB ballparks. Very subjective, of course, and we've seen countless rankings. That being said, here's a new one that ranks Rate Field at #27. The two minor league ballparks in use this year are ranked #29 and #30. Only Chase Field in Phoenix ranks lower that the home of the White Sox. I used to get all outraged when seeing Sox Park dissed and listed near the bottom in some of these rankings, but I really don't see anything they say here that strikes me as unfair. And yes, they are using the old name of this stadium: Guaranteed Rate Field. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25180779-ranking-all-30-mlb-stadiums-2025-season

I just read the Sun-Times article linked here. I agree with the general sentiment in your first sentence, but I didn't see anything that Crochet said in the article that was uncalled for or unprofessional. His response came off as pretty reasonable to me considering what you summed up nicely in your 2nd sentence. And unlike some other ex-players who have commented on the state of the Sox organization over the last few years, it's not like Crochet can be told to take a look in the mirror and acknowledge his own underperformance or poor clubhouse chemistry issues in contributing to this train wreck. I hope he goes on to have a fantastic career and does well except when he's facing the White Sox.

IMO, I've been locked out of watchable baseball from my favorite team for what is now the 3rd straight season. I'm not losing too much sleep over what 2027 might bring. That being said, it does look like a huge collision is coming after the end of next season.

Everyone repeat after me: The Sox are NOT MOVING TO ARLINGTON HEIGHTS. Outside of the first couple of seasons and after a WS title (if that ever happens again), they would never get close to averaging 30k a game over an 81 game home schedule (which is what it would take to reach 2.5M annual attendance) at a suburban location that is only convenient to those who live in or near the NW suburbs. I grew up in the NW suburbs and love the area, but it would be a total disaster for the franchise. Even if there's a decent # of Sox fans in the NW suburbs. No way it's even close to half the baseball fans out there. And people who live in the city or SW/South suburbs? You can forget about drawing them to more than a couple of games a year. That's writing off a huge chunk of their fan base. The next long term home for the Sox is either going to be at 35th and Shields or at the 78. Not AH, not Tinley Park, and not Nashville.

Agreed. This isn't shocking news to me - it's what JR has been saying all along. I never expected him to sell the team this year.....and even if he was, I never expected him to even hint that he was. To the latter part of your sentence, the only logical answer to me is that Ishbia must have secured a right of first refusal agreement from Reinsdorf when he dropped his Twins bid. Jerry is 89 and Isbhia is 47. He could very well have decided it's worth waiting a few years for the opportunity to own a MLB team in his hometown and in the 3rd largest market. But what if Jerry lives to be 102 like Virginia McCaskey! What if, what if.....not very likely even if Jerry is in relatively good health now. And note that he said he's not interested in selling as long as he's in good health, not until he's dead. Sadly, a lot of people experience a sharp (and often sudden) decline in health when they reach the 9 decade mark of life.

The White Sox franchise is valued at around $1.9 billion. How could a MLB team not be purchased by a billionaire these days? And while Veeck was very fan-friendly, do fans really want the next Sox owner to be short on cash and run the team on a shoe-string budget again? If so, this fan base must really be a glutton for punishment. Trading away Goose Gossage and Bucky Dent in rent-a-player moves worked out great for that magical 1977 season (though they did finish 3rd in the end), but then what? After that, the team was a laughingstock for the rest of his ownership. And, while before my time, in his first go-around as Sox owner he traded away a lot of talent after the '59 pennant win and that cost the Sox dearly during their competitive years in the 1960s. The problem with Reinsdorf isn't that he's a billionaire. The problem is that he's been a PR disaster pretty much from the get-go and over the last 20 years: has run this team like we're the Pittsburgh Pirates, has simply refused to invest properly in this team, and has filled the organization with incompetent sycophants.

IMO, we've moved past this. At this point, it'll all be about whether the team is eventually sold to Ishbia and whether the Ishbia brothers will make a privately-funded stadium at The 78 happen. I think JR knows that his publicly funded stadium fantasy is DOA, too. That's why he approached Ishbia about increasing his stake in the franchise.

NOT.....GOING....TO......HAPPEN. Just because the AH mayor-elect dreams about it doesn't mean the Sox will ever move to Arlington Heights.....not in a million years.

JR certainly has a sweetheart deal with the current lease. Even if the team stays at the current ballpark, I don't expect ISFA to just rubber stamp the same lease terms going forward with the way things have gone the last few years with the team's performance and with attendance. They'd just be incentivizing more mediocrity and fan apathy. Of course the huge wildcard there is Jerry's age (he'll be 93 when the lease is up) and whether Ishbia is indeed being lined up to be the next team owner. And at the risk of giving someone another case of the giggles, whether the Ishbia brothers are going make a new ballpark at the 78 a reality with private financing of the stadium. If that happens, I'm not sure what ISFA's role would be with a new stadium, it would have to be mostly (if not all) privately financed, but there would still be a lot of public investment in infrastructure at the site.

The Rays have withdrawn from the $1.3B stadium deal: https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/mlb/tampa-bay-rays-withdraw-planned-ballpark-rcna196280

I have wondered how a parallel universe in which Veeck got approval to sell to DeBartolo would have turned out for us Sox fans. I seem to remember that the other owners claimed that DeBartolo would move the Sox out of town.....which Jerry and Eddie nearly did to St. Pete a few years later.

.....nearly 45 years after MLB blocked the sale of the White Sox to Edward DeBartolo Sr., Manfred might pressure a sale of the Rays to (perhaps) Edward Jr?

Block 37 is a great example. As far as the 78 goes, I'll also add that perhaps one big obstacle to getting it developed so far is the alignment of the Rock Island Metra tracks. The current alignment makes the site inaccessible from Clark St. without an at-grade crossing. So, I'm guessing that a big project is needed to justify the cost of lowering the grade of the tracks to open up access from Clark.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of the Sox moving to the 78 - even if it's with the Ishbias' private money. The idea of a new park a short walk from the Loop and along an expanded riverwalk sounds exciting, but I have built a lot of memories at the current park over nearly 30 years (I haven't been to a game since 2018). I brought my kids there lots of times when they were growing up. I was at the AJ dropped 3rd strike game and other memorable games. Good times. And they did a good job improving the park in the early 2000s. But Rate Field is what it is - a nice, underrated, but unremarkable stadium in a part of town without much else to do. It's a short L ride from downtown, but most people don't bother unless they're really into White Sox baseball. Maybe that could change if they can develop the parking lots around the ballpark. I have my doubts about that, but we'll see what a new owner (whether or not it's the Ishbia brothers) decides for the future of this team. I doubt any new owner in their right minds will want to move the team to some suburban location. That would work for the Bears, but not for a MLB team with 81 home games a year. It's going to be the current stadium, a new stadium at the 78, or maybe even a new stadium at the site of Old Comiskey (a very longshot possibility). That's probably about it as viable options IMO.

Yeah, I think the state could very well agree to pay for the infrastructure costs if ownership paid for most, if not all, of the stadium itself. That infrastructure wouldn't be a small investment by the state and city, but it's probably something they could agree to if they're putting money into things like a new Red Line stop and an extended riverwalk instead of toward the new stadium itself for the use of billionaire owners.

IMO that "bad neighborhood" perception has faded quite a bit. Yeah, once in a while I still hear people remark that the current stadium is next to "the projects", but not so much any more. The real issue with the current location is the lack of much else to do around the ballpark. That may have been fine in the past, but more and more, teams are finding they need to surround their ballpark with things for fans to do before or after the game to put enough fans in the seats. We've seen the Cardinals and Braves do this in recent years. The Phillies and Mets are now planning to do the same. Is the answer to move the Sox to The 78? That'll be up to the Ishbia brothers, and their billions in fortune, to decide. Maybe they'll decide the current park and location is "just fine" as some die hard Sox fans have said. Even in that case, I can't imagine their plan is to sink all that money into buying the team only keep the team surrounded by acres of parking lots and not much else for the next 30-40 years. So, maybe their plan would be to keep the Sox at the current stadium but see about redeveloping much of the parking.

This seems like a moot argument for the Sox. State elected officials have been crystal clear that JR's request for something around $1B in public funding for a new stadium is a non-starter/DOA. ....and the discussion in this thread seems to be ignoring the huge news over the last couple of weeks that Justin Ishbia is reportedly setting himself up to buy the team from Reinsdorf in the not too distant future. That has the potential to upend the whole public funding for a new stadium request/debate.

If true, how does his bid to buy the Twins during this timeframe fit into that? Did he think negotiations weren't progressing and then turned to the Twins when they went up for sale?

I have some general questions about all of this: Since Jerry has full controlling interest in the team, what difference does it make that Ishbia is buying up a good chunk of the non-controlling interest in the team from other shareholders? Couldn't JR (or his sons after his death) hypothetically just decide to sell his controlling interest to someone else? Is Jerry's 20% or so stake in the team valued higher than the remaining non-controlling shares? If so, how much more? How does Ishbia buying out a majority of shareholders impact Reinsdorf's dream of a new ballpark in the South Loop? Maybe some of these questions have a "well, duh!" answer to them, but just wanted get all this sorted out in my mind.

Oh, I agree that there's no doubt why he'd choose the Sox over the Twins. But I was responding to the following suggestion: "Ishbia dropping out of the Twins race was less about him acquiring the Sox and more that maybe the Twins was a bad investment." If buying the Sox was not on the table for him, I was wondering why he would have decided that buying the Twins was a bad investment. IMO, if there wasn't a pathway to ownership of the Sox presented to him, he wouldn't have suddenly dropped his Twins bid.