Chisoxfn

And right now - I don't need wholesale improvements overnight - but I need to start seeing progress. Start there - reset the season and get back to the basics. Can't scrap a playbook overnight, but you can shrink it and really dial it in. Hopefully the players can rally around Brown cause it just seems like there is a lot of talk from the offense but little backing it up. Defensively they talk but largely back it up.

Completely agree. I think Caleb is part of this and he has to be better - but this was just not a good move. Year one was always going to be a learning year - and there has been good - but I don't want to see the rest of the season be bad. They got to really work to get this right. If I'm Poles and Cunningham I'm getting my hands very dirty here as well - because the future of the franchise and their jobs rests on Caleb as well so they got to be embedded and more involved in what changes will be made because they are the only ones that are really going to be sticking around over the long-run (or who have a shot at it). But Thomas Brown - he clearly has all kinds of skin in the game here. He turns this ship around - he is the absolute biggest beneficiary. Flus is gone at this point - but there is the element of pride and getting that next gig. I was also kind of surprised in fairness that they didn't make a change on the oline either.

It was so close - I can live with whiffing on Keenen, you kind of live and learn there. I just think we have too much to go around and the guys aren't bought in right now - which is a HUGE issue on offense. There is clearly no buy-in. I think they put WAY too much on the rookie QB (in hindsight easy to say) and its kind of creating a total mess. At this point - there has to be a hard reset back to the basics and a big shift. But they could have nailed it - get Harbaugh or just start the clock fresh immediately and you are at least in a better spot. But I get the concept of good franchise(s) usually are more patient franchise(s)...but it just doesn't work.

Biggs has been indicating the offensive players haven't been impressed since the season started. Its been pretty clear. I think Waldron doesn't know how to put that pressure on. I don't know that Brown does either. They just let McVay do it in their day and it isn't like Brown was a best with the Panthers. At this point - it is just so sickening to me they could have gotten Harbaugh and didn't. Those types of coaches who are cultural game changers don't grow on trees. Tomlin(s), Harbaugh(s), Reid, etc. I don't think Lincoln Riley is that - I have zero interest in him. I'd rather go Kingsbury and I'm still not sold there. But if Kingsbury could come with a Vrabel that might change me. I actually don't mind Vrabel at this point - because i don't think he's a bad coach. Ben Johnson I am fine with - my only hesitation is how much is Campbell driving the pressure and culture vs. the x's and o'x that Ben does. Can he drive a culture and set it and be the HC.

I always knew Flus was meh….but what this week has shown is Poles is no better cause he is now allowing this indecisiveness to rot the locker room and waste this season.

Maybe that is Sox best angle. Dodgers get him in 24 pool and Sox go sign a few dodgers 24 guys with their remaining salary. lol - so sad the state of the franchise.

I agree - but I don’t get why they don’t address quicker. But I guess as long as they do by tomorrow the players have a day to get their minds adjusted before practice starts on Wednesday…but it feels like you’d want the coaches staying to have a day to get their message and approach dialed in so they can hit ground running on Wednesday.

Exactly - I see no scenario where keeping Waldron makes any sense. If you guys are saying they aren't getting rid of them than lets just continue to expect the worst.

Are you serious - they aren't making any changes. That makes ZERO sense.

In fairness - last week was as banged up as an oline can get...but the Bears have some guys who have consistently been banged up which is on them. Now on paper it still isn't a great oline and some of the scheme / talent eval seems to be missing. Not sure which. I expect the oline will improve with their 2 starting tackles back and with Bates getting more footing. If you get your tackles back with Bates and Jenkins and Shelton in the middle - I'm not saying it is great, but that is a big step up from what played most of yesterday. But I think you do it with a new OC who potentially makes tweaks - and at this point - I think simpler has to be the trend of direction cause there is only so much you can change in an offense during the course of a season, which is what makes it hard. However - how they haven't isolated Moore and Kmet and others on key plays and split the field to simplify things for the QB just isn't good. They obviously don't have a go-to way to run the ball, but it seems like we need a hard reset. I don't expect a lot that can be done - but they have to do stuff different.

There is no way that is true. That is a rumor I won't believe. I can understand why you don't move on from him now, because you don't have an OC or someone else to turn this thing over to to be the HC. But even than - at this point it feels so bad (now maybe the defensive room is still pretty locked in - so you think you can get a big lift by just getting rid of Waldron and turning it over to Brown so it can be his show). I DO NOT believe you can keep Waldron in the building and just get rid of his play calling. At this point - a real change has to happen.

Yeah - its terrible.

I would be thrilled if they finished 4-4. Right now I don’t know that they win a game. Waldron has to be fired and at this point I am worried. I think Caleb will be fine but this is more than just coaching.

If I’m Warren’s I’m cleaning house.

Lux for Robert is non sensical but I could very well see Dodgers interested in Robert’s. I think it comes down to what sort of value could Sox get - if it isn’t there I’m not trading him….lets see what a new manager can do for him and just a reset after a tough season.

I think he is traded by the winter meetings.

You are spot on everywhere in this thread and a strong Philly offer is one I could be very excited about.

Agree - what he did was incredible. Hadn’t played in ten plus years and dropped into AA with some success. He would have figured it out…not saying he would have been great given the late start but he would have made the majors and stuck around had he stayed. And I imagine if he went full time MLB and never played basketball, he probably would have been pretty good. He was just one of those gifted people at sports and his work ethic and will to win was off the charts. Dude wasn’t going to let himself fail.

Half the season is left and we have a rookie QB who has gone through ups and downs, unsurprisingly. This feels like the time where you hit pause - really self scout and course correct and start dialing in and optimizing offense for what works. Get more playmakers involved, dial in the plays that are working, shrink the playbook, find some more "easy" throws to get your QB in rhythm, make sure you have some scheme plays for Kmet and Moore early - quick slants, etc that get the team rolling. Also - the above is really interesting - it does feel like with Allen he is really slow - but has that old man game - so let him leverage his body and footwork in a more crisp role to get him those "easier" throws and completions as well. Get Caleb to focus on that too - but you also have to have some targeted shots. But this feels like a - we got to really tighten the playbook and work with players and offense to really dial this in. The issue is clearly their is a huge lack of trust on offensive side of the ball - I think defensive side of the house is in very good order, despite some down's the past 2 weeks (last week they were pretty beat up). But things can go real bad if the offense doesn't start to take meaningful steps forward. If they lose, I think we see Waldron fired - not sure Thomas Brown can immediately change things - but I won't deny play calling matters as does details. Too big of a playbook can drive you to be sloppier on the details. Too much too soon can do the same. Too simple has issues as well.

No walks, but I hear he really likes bunting it into the air….its like hot ice…it’s the best of both worlds In all seriousness, seems like another solid and reasonable move…which is good.

Yes standing pat was right. I would have traded Keenan cause I think there are too many egos and too much pressure on Caleb right now to spread the love. It was a good idea on paper but hindsight having Keenan and Moore wasn’t a great idea…Rome was fine although I always said I was fine going down and taking an olinen and than another wideout later cause I thought this wideout class was stocked.

I think him spending most time in d league makes total sense….my auto correct removes d from league. He needs those reps - we completely agree and I’m sure he will bounce around a lot between two teams.

Biggs said everything today without saying anything - it’s clear the offensive players don’t respect Waldron or think highly of him. It is funny. Flus could have hired Kingsbury but just like Pooes didn’t go after Harbaugh cause he was scared of Jim…I think flus was scared Kliff and his charisma would cost Flus his job….

Actually the worse part of game was final minute when they clearly lost and Williams took 2 awful shots and was shake. Up. What a dumbass Flus was for having him out there. End of last 3 halves have all been highlighted by s%*#. Hail Mary…52 yard td run as time is running out (this was worse than a Hail Mary)…and than almost getting your qb killed on the final play of the game when you are down 20. WTF

He is really raw - getting more time in league is needed.