Chisoxfn

Trust me on this. Glover in the bullpen is one of the best set up guys in baseball.

Right now I'd say Liefer has no value. I would ship Liefer to the Brewers for Wes Helms.

I understand everyones anger towards the subject, but all I want to know, are what restraints does KW have tied around him. He has a cheap owner that isn't willing to let him add salary, which means he has to be real creative to get anything done. Its hard to get someone cheap when a team is looking to dump payroll and you can't add it. Its also hard to get someone if your owner simply says no. Right now, I think KW is in a tough tough position and if he somehow develops a winner he will of done it against the odds. I'm not calling him great, but I ain't going to blame him for not making the Ortiz deal till I know exactly what he turned down. Also, last I looked thats the only deal he's not made so far this offseason. The Expos deal is still out their. Who knows what will happen with that or how close they are. Their is still a legit chance we could end up with any of them. You can't simply bank on one player, otherwise you'll end up paying way too much. In the past thats exactly what Kw's done. Hopefully this time he's made a list, checked it twice, and is going to find out who fits just right.

He should be back 100% by the seasons start. Thats not to say his future is as our starting centerfielder. The Sox have quietly been looking to add someone like Shinjo as a backup plan. Willie Harris is also getting extended playing time in Centerfield during the Winter Leagues, so he can also play their. Of course the golden boy, Joe Borchard, should be roaming their or in Right(Maggs moves to left) in 2 years. He needs one more year in the minors, imo.

I say 2 starts, with an occassional pinch hit at bat.

Ritchie would be the #4. I said if we don't get anyone, meaning that our rotation would be Buerhle...Garland...Wright...Ritchie...Rauch

Closer by committee is crap if you have a legit closer. No way will Manuel be able to go with any committee with Koch in their. He could with Foulke, mainly because people got on Foulke early. Still, we do have a very deep bullpen and if Koch has pitched a lot, we may just give him an extra day off and go with Marte or Osuna or even Glover if needed.

If the Sox roster, offensively, doesn't change, then Liefer should stay on the bench. The only positions he could play are lf, 1b, or Dh. He could also play 3rd, but we have Crede, and he's going to be get the playing time. Lee had a very good second half of the season, where he showed that he may be on the verge of having a huge year. Then in PK, we just signed him long term, and he is continually getting better and is only 26 or so, so Liefer won't be playing their. The White Sox definately won't be benching Frank Thomas for Liefer either. Jeff should see good playing time though. Manuel will try to get him in more often this year, but still, he hasn't done anything to earn that playing time. If the Sox move Lee for a pitcher, then Liefer should start, but the Sox should aslo go with a backup plan. Basically, Liefer is at best a backup. On a sidenote, I don't see many teams that he would actually start for.

Moving Jose around was screwy because it caused all sorts of problems, not just for Jose but for the chemistry of the team.

Well, the talent changed the next year. Losing Wells(Or Sirotka, we would of lost either), losing Parque, losing Thomas, etc. It was a big thing the Sox couldn't overcome. I don't think many teams could overcome that.

Test

The one thing about Bowden, if he wants to get rid of someone, he will do it without worrying who he gets in return. See Pokey Reese (Once was able to get Gary Sheffield, but the Reds turned it down - allegedly) and then ended up being worth nothing.

I was like Jim Parque, then I hurt my arm. Now I'm finally getting around to getting it back in shape. I actually think I throw harder now then before, so I don't know why Parque can't. Me throwing harder is like me hitting 78-80. I was never known for my speed, more my curve, knuckler, change and control. Oh well, I'm wasting talent in college, working on becoming a gm or something.

I could give up Stewart. I think his impressive AFL stats could help us get way more value for him. I don't mind Stewart, but he is nothing like our other guys and could definately move him, if it would get us Dempster. Dempster is way better, and could help us now. Brad Penny would be my first pick, but he'd cost way too much. Also, I do think the Reds are looking at Lopez as a shortstop, not 2nd baseman and are figuring Larkin is done, either this year or next(Plus he's hurt 60% of the season). Now would be a perfect time to groom their future infield, so their is a definate possibility of them wanting Harris, but that isn't as likely after they made the deal. Then again, they are supposedly willing to get Colon for Lopez and Dunn, so who knows what to think.

Its amazing how these threads take a life of their own. :metal

Welcome Aboard Toasty... As far as Jose goes, I don't like him as our shortstop. I will live with him as long as we don't sign anyone. Still, I would love to see someone like Hummell or Harris step up, so Jimenez could move to short with the other playing 2nd and hitting 2nd behind Jimenez. The flaw is, it would be very difficult to compete with two, basically rookies, hitting 1 and 2 in the lineup. We have a very young team, so having Manos out their is probably a good thing cause we at least know what we have in him. Thats not to say I'd rather have a different veteran shortstop or 2nd baseman at 4.5 million a year, cause I would. I do think that everyone over-rates Manos when saying he made the 2000 team. That team over-achieved. Eldred, Baldwin, etc. had career years and the team was healthy. This team is more talented than that one, and it will be interesting to see what happens. If crede develops like I think he can, and Frank comes back with Maggs and PK continually growing, we'll have an amazing offense. Buerhle, Wright and Garland are all pretty decent and developing while Rauch is real good. Ritchie can't be as bad and we have Biddle back their as well. We also have a bullpen that rivals the 2000 one, so things don't look too bad, even if we go into next year without making any more changes.

I will say this. I'm much happier with Ritchie and Rauch in the rotation then losing Konerko. I love Rauch as our 5th starter because I Think he's one of those rookies that will develop rather quickly, mainly because he knows how to pitch, and has very good stuff. As long as this guy is 100%, he should be on our major league roster. Still, I do think it would be best for the Sox to pick up a good number 2 pitcher. Of course, at what cost is the question. Do we want to give up Garland for Colon(If JR has told Kw we may not be able to lock him up long term?) or do we want to give up Honel or Borchard in a Colon deal? These are all things that KW has to think about and say, this is worth doing it or this isn't. Plus, if Colon doesn't position us to a world series and we lose him next year, then it will all be for naught.

All I really would like to have are the transcripts of what went on. Until then, none of us can really know what happened. Maybe, KW is getting smarter and is turning down deals instead of being pressed into making deals. I'm putting a lot of faith in him and I said I would give him one more year so I'm doing just that. I think in a year, he will prove himself to be a good gm, if I'm wrong, I'll go out and admit it and will hope he gets canned.

Geeze...this must be psychological soothing for most posters...getting out all the stress and tensions after all these rumors and waiting.

If the Reds are dumping salary we could really take advantage of a once hot commodity guy and hope to turn him around. Imo, this is a guy whose going to figure things out again. He was over-worked and that typically kills young pitchers arms(Baggs made this post a long time ago). After something like that, it usually take a couple years for them to recoever(See Millwood, etc) I think Dempster, having a full offseason should be feeling a lot better next season. I'd definately be willing to offer Willie Harris and Brian West for Dempster. I don't know the Reds true needs, but I know they would want pitching prospects.

hasnt mendoza had alot of arm problems the past 2 seasons???...i remember him in '00 being the guy everyone in baseball wanted from the yanks...seems interest has cooled off...with whats left if the sox were truly looking for a free agent pitcher id go with daal first and the mendoza... medoza is a free aganr right??...the yanks said they wernt gonna make him an offer..or am i thinking of someone else??? Mendoza is a free agent. He's had a few injuries, nothing too serious(Someone can check me on that), but he's mainly been in the pen as the Yanks see him as being so strong their. He gives them something no other team has(Thats what Torre thought) This guy would be a very good pickup, but If he is going to go anywhere for cheap, I'd think the Yanks would just spend a little extra and sign him.

Next...let me say this, Billy Beane is losing it. The last deal he made really has me questioning things. Erubiel Durazo is a great talent, but the guy has been injured his whole career. He gave up one phenomenal prospect and some are saying that odds are the Jays will get both Griffin and Arnold or whatever his name is. That would be way too much to give up to get Durazo, imo.

First off, let me say welcome aboard Sox Badger. Great post. I'm with you in most regards. Right now I'm under the assumption that the White Sox will keep their payroll between 50 and 52 mill(Just my guess) If they do that, then they won't have much after locking up Ritchie and eventually locking up Buerhle. This would mean they'd have to dump some type of salary to pick up a pitcher or get JR to ok adding a little more salary. With the increase in ticket prices, and the all star festivities you could only hope. Right now, I think the best option if we are going to get a real good pitcher is Bartolo Colon, but the Expos will demand a ton and Ken Williams will have to decide whether it is worth it. The Ortiz deal would of been great, especially for the rumored prospects. Unfortunately, the Braves made a far better offer and the Sox couldn't beat it or didn't have the shot to beat it. (I think the Braves gave up way too much, imo) Next off you have the Colon deal. Those rumors have died down, but the Sox are now supposed to be the 3rd team in the running, which lives a little bit of hope out their. Their are also guys like Person that are free agents and don't look to be getting any interest. Person isn't a great pitcher, but the thing that stands out about him is the fact that opponents don't hit him very good at all. If he could ever improve his control, he'd be a extremely good pickup.

Thank you. Byrd turned down a lot more money and more years from the Phillies. Lets face it, the offer that it would of took to get Byrd in the South Side would of been way too risky. Something like 3 yrs and 20 mill is what he had on the table from the Phillies. Sorry, but no way would I give Byrd that much money. He's good, but thats a big risk.

Baggs, as I said to oldroman....would you rather have had KW made the trade for Ortiz which would add $4 million to our payroll and would give us a huge risk in JT Snow or we would have been Ortiz-less with Konerko...you even said it yourself that this could end up like the Ritchie trade....which is one reason I really like it falling through. I am happy with Konerko in a Sox uni...it is fine with me. i didnt say make the konerko - ortiz trde if that was even a possibility...i didnt like that trade...but in the 2 years KW has been in charge we have gone from leading the AL in wins to a .500 ball club..and he has not made one trade that has significantly made this team better...but has made many that have hurt us...until this team wins he deserves all the criticism he gets... Baggs has held his ground since the day KW was hired. I hope to god his wrong, but he is very consistent with his opinions.