Chisoxfn

What if Vaughn was the main asset.

Since 2020 they have the 2nd highest pitching war in baseball behind the dodgers (6th highest starting pitching). And no one is saying have blind adoration for anything.

The site is really good. Basically it is a web based bi tool and you can filter different pitches groups of pitches and than see trends over window and look at all kinds of advanced splits - spin rate trend, h-rate etc or on hitters lots of data too. It is phenomenal.

I would have signed Correa last off season or went a different route. Loved me the Correa deal.

Sox should be looking at guys to upgrade the pen/be next guys up. Call them possible upside candidates. Not a lot of money - but I am tired of not at least trying and than seeing if any stick: Tommy Kanhle could be a good fit. Was pretty good in final month for Dodgers after being hurt for forever. Fact he first came into seem with Sox could actually make this a plausible fit. Alex Reyes is also one of those take a flier guys. He is probably less likely to be super expensive but was an all star in 21. That said shoulder injuries are not good and he is always hurt. Archie Bradley could be another one - slightly more expensive than the other two but he really was banged up with Angels last year. Feels like if health is on his side he could be solid with a bit of upside. Probably not as good as the 4 year stretch he had but could be a solid bounce back candidate and I can’t imagine him getting much more than a few million.

Seager I don’t mind. Semien - meh. I actually wanted to sign Simeon when he went to Jays but the deal the Rangers did just was way too much. But seager I can’t argue as much - liken his ability to pay off for a longer portion of that contract. But I have zero issue with big money deals to position players - especially ones with strong tools and age on there side.

Please just blow it all up. Keep no one. Good lord. I am done.

Yeah it is absurd. Spend the money on the elite. Still pisses me off Sox didn’t get Harper. And if it isn’t that - do targeted buy low guys, people you can fix, or see how the market develops and take advantage of market inefficiencies.

Yes - the team with the highest projected starting rotation WAR had to go dumpster diving. Dude - come on. I am not saying they shouldn’t have developed more but give credit to where it is due - without spending big money fa they have found a way to put a pretty good rotation at the MLB level. Id love more depth and all that and so would almost every team in baseball but this teams top 5 is playoff worthy. The stupid usage of money on relievers and utility guys - that is a whole nother story.

Dude - we get it. Sox haven’t been good enough - that doesn’t make the points being made wrong - just makes the Sox front office bad. No one is implying they aren’t - but I don’t think handing out Degrom deal would be a recipe for success….especially for a team with the payroll the Sox have.

I consider Gio, Cease, Kopech all guys that come from that approach. The Sox used guys to get ‘em and than develop em. Rodon was drafted and obviously didn’t work - but Quintana and Sale were reason Sox had some of the above. But yes - Sox clearly need to do better but they have generally had better pitching than most.

With positional players - yes. With pitchers - I would rather develop or trade for elite guys with other talent vs go big and long. Or as I advocated last in past just overpay for shorter term.

That is really insane for a pitcher. This is one area I agree with JR. Develop your own or get them in short term deals for big bucks - long term with massive bucks is just so risky.

Yeah - he fell apart after Covid and some other stuff (can't remember what). Could just be coincidence too. Or maybe something was off, I don't know. But I do know this guy works hard and is always looking at optimizing things and this drop-off was nothing compared to how he started his career in the MLB and how he remastered his game.

They would have drafted Ryan Leaf anyway.

Yes - I am saying Glasnow may have negative value to the Rays. Or maybe a combo. Depends on why Rays want to make a move. If they want to do something different with payroll or not ($30+M for Glasnow may be viewed as expensive on him, maybe it isn't). I don't know that there is massive surplus value there given the uncertainty in his return. So there is risk. And no I am not proposing Glasnow for Gio straight up - I would not make that move if I were the Sox (without getting something more).

And yet this is still likely an awful move. That is too much money and 1 yr too many to give to an older reliever (or a non elite closer period).

And if the Sox got Glasnow that and maybe there was some cash or other stuff coming from the Rays back? it isn't as silo'd as you think, just given the positional value (SP > 2B - WAR be damn). I don't think you need to do Colas+ (I wouldn't do it from the Sox perspective than). I would probably give up a multiple guys type of approach if that is what it took (and I have been on record I am perfectly fine with the Sox taking that sort of path). You don't trade Montgomery though for a player like Lowe - Lowe is good when healthy (presuming he bounces back) but he isn't worthy of inclusion in a deal for a 2B. Nope.

I only know this because I looked him up a while ago and was shocked at how much younger he was than I thought.

All I know is I would be a fan of the move for Lowe. It has risk though and I don't know that I compare Lowe and Robert. One plays a premier defensive position with a higher upside the other doesn't have. I think Lowe's upside is what he was - which is really good - where as Robert's upside (whether you buy it or not is something else). But your point is well taken. Sometimes it also comes down to positional value. 2B don't typically get traded for as much as pitchers. The reality is if the Sox made this deal with the Rays, I would know we were in big trouble. That said - if Sox / Rays were to match, is Glassnow a fit as part of this. I would imagine Rays don't love the idea of paying him (not saying Sox would love the risk either) with the uncertainty.

The big thing with Gio is he has been very durable (*knock on wood*) during his major league career (although I appreciate he has already had TJ). The list of guys who are on the market with Gio's pedigree, age and relative reasonable contract is small. I would say if he were on the market - he is getting > 1yr 20M (yet his contract will be less than that - telling me he is definitely a surplus asset despite the 1 year deal). He is also widely thought of as a strong clubhouse guy, etc.

Semien really gutted his way through that game. Fields appears set to start Sunday. Brisker / Gordon / Borom out.

Or they could get an above average outfielder who is signed for a bit longer term deal (doesn't necessarily have to be prospects). And I laugh at GIo+ for Kepler (I think Gio is more valuable than Kepler but maybe I'm wrong). And maybe the Sox decide they won't replace Gio, rather lean in on other guys and take a lesser approach and essentially deploy more money into other holes? And lets not act like the Sox can't trade some prospects for other more cost controlled guys. Quite frankly - if they are trying to win - does it really matter how great the farm system is vs. pushing in some chips to inject more talent into the team now. If it doesn't work you are going to be restarting a rebuilding anyway and be starting over. So I kind of view it as - go ahead and throw away a few young cost controlled guys for a ML above average cost controlled guy who can help this team now and I would be fully supportive of doing it.

Wow.

That is where I am - my view is - trade him now as part of a broader retooling when you have the whole market available (if it makes sense). If offer is weak fine - but I don't think the offers will be weak. People say Soxtalk overrates guys - I actually think in general the negativity on here outweighs the positivity from most posters and in general they underrate individuals. Gio is at a fair price (but expiring), healthy and entering his prime. They absolutely can get a real difference maker for him (or other chips). I'm not saying you are getting a Chris Sale or Jose Quintana package for him - but lets not act like Gio is trash. His projections are also favorable for '23 and prior to last year had 3 straight years of 4+ WAR and 1 top 10 and 1 top 11 CY Young appearance.