Chisoxfn

Caufield - wishing you a quick recovery and no long term impacts. Get better quick!!!

I really think the 2020-2023 White Sox will go down as the shining example of why you don’t hand a bunch of elite talents a ton of money when they either hadn’t yet made the majors or were barely in the majors. At the time - I loved the idea, but in hindsight the Sox did it too soon and set the wrong precedent around ensuring players have the right hunger to earn that initial major pay day vs get it handed to them too soon (in fairness they earned it but it was clearly premature).

Heads up that in next week we will likely shut down site for a bit to upgrade the forum and clean up some server stuff. Was hoping to limp through season but trade deadline outages on site showed we got to take care of sooner vs later. Will give more of a heads up when I know exact timing.

Reality is - as soon as we hit tomorrow - some of the short-timers need to go and they need to give consistent at bats to Lee, Sosa, Colas and a bunch others over the next 2 months. I don't know what they'll do with Quero but you could put him on the list and obviously Vargas is a given. I'm sure I'm missing others - not saying you should rush everyone - but for those that have gotten enough expeirence and you need to see if they are MLB'ers or AAAA ers now is hte time.

I don't get it - Fedde was at least a #2/#3 starter or was pitching like one (FIP devalued him a bit but still a legit #3 at minimum). DeJong is a utility guy who can step in and start if someone is hurt but that is it. Getting a flyer which is what they got is all we should expect. Heck - if it were me, I Would have been trying to find international slot and / or draft picks where I could because I think in today's market teams are kind of undervaluing those vs. existing talent (call it time value - one is already here, the other is soon to be here).

I live out in SoCal - my Dodger friends all thought pretty highly of him and think he's going to be a good player, but he just didn't get enough playing time. Wouldn't be the first Dodger stuck in that position. Its kind of hard to get regular playiing time (vs. platoon) on that roster unless you are a bonafide superstar. Dodgers thought a lot more highly of Vargas than Busch. Busch has put up 2.5 WAR thus far this season. I really don't think it would be a shocker if Vargas became a 3 WAR+ type of player. With 5 years of control...that isn't bad.

I think the, they gave up Kopech and Pham needs to get levelized a bit. Pham wasn't going to get you much. He's a veteran leader who was a waiver pick-up and he's put up negative WAR. He has good grit and has been better than the rest of the Sox garbage, but he's still one of the last 2 guys on the roster - no one is giving up much for him at all. This was more of - we are moving you to a contender and maybe you got some iterative value. Kopech is a guy with a great arm and one year of control left - but he isn't super cheap either as he'll likely get a raise of some sort. I think getting 1.5 intriguing guys is probably right for him which means .5 of the 19 year old goes to Fedde plus Vargas. In my mind - that means Fedde is a bit of an underpay - but that is depending on how Sox rate Vargas. If they still think he is that top 40 type player who was roster squeezed - than they will end up looking pretty smart in this deal. I actually think there is a chance the Dodgers look the worst in this - as if the SS never regains form from injury, they basically get Kopech for 3 guys at that point. Cards did well in my mind - no denying that.

Have they really not won on a Monday all year?

Where is this coming from. I am not one to defend Getz but it sounded like they wee talking and working with him on a plan and than they got completely blindsided.

I think of it that way - if Vargas ends up a 3 WAR player for 5 years of control - that is a pretty darn good trade. If one of the other prospects turns into something as well - that is an excellent deal. I’m not betting on the second thing happening - but more they take chances on these type of guys on trades, the more one or two might hit. On Vargas, I think with him just being able to play regularly without getting consistently in and out (part of challenge for young dodger players breaking in)….we are going to end up seeing him blossom. He is a good hitter. I don’t know if he will be great - but I see him being a 750 to 825 ops type of guy without projecting too much. Also let’s not compare him to Sosa - his minor league numbers and hit tool is light years ahead of Sosas. Maybe he ends up like Sosa but they aren’t the same echelon of prospects.

Oddly enough - they both have the same FIP this year.

I actually don’t mind him ripping Crochet. Sox have him under contract so it isn’t like they have to move him anyway. But given the quotes I suspect they will…again I’m not optimistic but maybe Fedde was a bit more depressed of a value since he doesn’t have #1/#2 stuff and so teams discounted that and fact it’s a half season of progress after a number of years of sucking. Kind of like that one year Humber was good before he went back to s%*#.

This doesn’t seem like anything for Sox fans to get up in arms about. Bloss is an a ball player over elevated into bigs due to injuries and a number 9 prospect in a system not loaded.

Defensively I don’t believe that is true.

I think that is my thing - if Kopech didn't have much value, there wasn't much reason not to hold onto him and keep working on him and give it a final shot next year at the deadline or in the off-season (if he finished the year strong).

I would argue if the SS is no longer a SS and all they are getting is a bat plus the contract, than the Dodgers did just as bad as the Sox, if not worse. Cause I do think Vargas and the other 2 is pretty good value for Kopech on his own (and I do expect Kopech at some point will put together a good run). So that is the part that kind of has me puzzled - maybe league just wasn't going to give up a lot for Fedde so it came down to which best prospect in any deal did Sox like the most. I don't know who the others were. Vargas is a big leaguer who has a hit tool that hasn't shown up (but his actual hitting tool is pretty good) and he had gotten pulled around a bit by the Dodgers. Any which way - I think we all agree that its a good deal for Cardinals - they get a potential playoff run with Fedde plus next year on a cost control deal. I'm still puzzled - can't really find a lot to be excited about, but I definitely could see a scenario where Vargas ends up a 3 WAR type of outfielder or 2B type (or a guy who can do a bit of both but get tons of at bats so a 3 WAR versality guy). I suppose potentially better - maybe 4 WAR (I kind of limit his upside there because he isn't getting plus points for his defense). But he should be a decent base runner, etc so not like they are getting Eloy in the field / on the bases (and hopefully not on the IR either).

To me that is the part that seems odd - Dodgers gave up all the prospects so they seemed to have no issue with Fedde for a guy who has missed all of this year coming off of wrist injury. At this piont I'll just hope one or both of those 19 year olds ends up breaking out and Vargas ends up being a legit middle of the order bat.

I think I saw he isn't a free agent until 2030 - so I think the bright side here is - this is a guy who is going to be around for a while, presuming he can figure out big league pitching. If he can hit like he did in the minors, than I think there is something legit there bat wise. Supposedly he was making some progress this season - my Dodger buddies were a fan of his. But reality is only way you see this deal making sense is Sox still view him as a top 50 type of prospect who they are buying low on because he's been stuck in a bit of a roster crunch with the Dodgers at big league level.

I still think this is one legit prospect light. God I hope all of the media are running of the same source or two and there is a name still missing and its missing for some legit reason (like Sox are looking at 2 or 3 players on a list and need to finalize something on that before it becomes official and name gets added).

at this poitn - maybe that is the best thing. Zero out payroll - get new owner in here - clean absolute house top to bottom.

He needs to just focus on clearing his mind and getting back to basics. Forget restoring his value - just got out and start having fun and play good baseball, one game at a time. Get past the deadline and reframe his perspective. He's clearly in a bad place mentally. I think this goes for the team and at some point (I would argue already) an interim manager is needed cause you can't just keep burying everyone with Grifol. I presume that happens in early August.

Edman is better than I think most on this board are giving credit to - his actual productivity of 16 WAR over 5 season's isn't bad and Dodgers have him through '26. But straight up for Fedde given the premium on pitching seems strange.

I stand corrected. Cardinal's seemed to do pretty good here. I like Vargas - he's got real upside as a hitter and I think worse case he plays in the outfield....but that isn't thrilling. The key is going to be these young guys from the Dodgers. Only thing I can say is at least Getz went with the young, higher athletic potential upside and targeted some flyers...but this is a REAL light trade in my opinion if they are really are just getting these 3 guys for Fedde, Kopech, and Pham. Hopefully one of those guys is the next Tatis Jr. And I will say - prospect rankings on guys just coming over from the international scene can be pretty off. Not that the Sox deserve any benefit of the doubt here - however, this is the type of deal Hahn never makes (he never went that raw on a deal like this).

I have no source on this. I heard that on local radio.

My understanding is the Cardinals prospects coming to the Sox have not yet been announced and players are still being informed. So I don't believe this is the final part of the move. Vargas is a pretty interesting guy though. I could be mistaken on the above - but as of now, it makes no sense without inclusion of Cardinals prospects.