Chisoxfn

Skubal is far more valuable in a trade than Crochet. While Crochet has been dominant this year so has Skubal. And while Skubal, has his own durability issues, he has a much more proven track record as a starter and is also better positioned to log innings down the stretch vs. Crochet. Not saying Skubal is the better pitcher when healthy - but both are very good healthy and if I were a team and I had my choice and the price was the same -> I would take Skubal vs. Crochet. With that said - I'm not sure Tigers are really that serious in moving him, unless of course they can get an absolute haul and it would have to be the type of haul they think would drive immediate value (meaning high end prospects that are either in the majors or near the majors). I'm thinking a package around Holliday + high end pitching prospect (if I use Oriole's as an example).

I actually think as Sox fans we probably overrate what Crochet and Robert get back. In fairness I think we'll get a pretty good return for both - but both have their warts which will impact how high end the return is. On Crochet's case, I've long said the health risk is why I take a deal now (presuming you get 80% of what you want) while as for Robert, given the duration and what I'll call different health risk (cause its there - but in my mind on a position player he's also around long enough that there is going to be a window where he's been healthy for a few months and putting up monsterous numbers - that is when you sell (if you don't think you can get 90% value right now). Re: Fedde - he has one year left in control and every start is showing he's the real deal. I think the Sox aren't going to get an elite guy - but I could see them getting 2 back end top 100 guys plus some international money or draft picks and another intriguing flyer (especially from an org who has a 40 man crunch).

If there was any truth to Francona that would be amazing. That is a legit great baseball mind.

I really don’t think Pedro makes it through the rest of the season. I don’t even know if he makes it to August at this point.

I go back to Crochet is a person we have ridden high - could we get a sligthly less valuation to maximize a 250% return on our money - sure....but we are one quarter away from losing our huge contract and being a penny stock given his track record. So to me - take the pretty good offer if one is on the table. Now if reality is everyone is discounting him and all you get is a back end top 100 guy and a throw-in, than no, I'm not trading Crochet for that and I'll rest him this year and use him as an opener or whatever and than hope to get more out of him in the next couple of years.

I assume Dodgers wouldn't - but it works for me.

If you want someone like him or Outman as like a 4th or 5th piece (lux doesn't make much sense in that case) than fine by me. But they can't be in the top 3 adn if you are getting Lux your view there has to be more like a Rays type of approach where you think him just getting tons of low pressure playing time builds up his value and you can deal him for more in a year (but again - I don't think Sox have a great track record of that yet - but I suppose the theory behind it I could get behind). I don't think Lux would be the guy I'm doing it for - but it would have to be as like the 4th piece (and in my mind Dodgers see more value in keeping him than they would moving him at that point).

Its why the whole - Yankees won't give him up was nuts to begin with. A, he isn't the headliner or shouldn't be and B) if you aren't willing to give him up, you aren't getting much anything anyway. Was always a nothing burger in the media and fact people thought it meant anything around Crochet's value was kind of nuts.

This was the deal - the issue was Rutherford already had his helium going out. Sox made the deal based upon intelligence from a year earlier and ignored more recent data which was indicating cracks in the armor / glaring weaknesses that would hinder his ultimate long term path (unless of course the Sox knew this and thought they had developmental solutions -> but given how Hahn structured most of his deals, I just don't think that is the case. I think given the lack of scouts they have / had (maybe it has grown) - they just aren't well positioned for those sort of things. I'm hoping they are doing a better job now with their scouting of other teams so they have the right intelligence to pick / acquire the rigtht players - given where the franchise is (i.e we are going to be selling more than buying) this is almost, if not more important than having the right draft scouts as Sox could get 15+ guys and more high profile talent via trades in the next few weeks than they got on the entire draft (in fact my expectation is they absolutely should get more value in next 2-3 weeks than they did in their draft). So how they have right process in place to maximize and target right guys is huge.

That and a draft pick works for me. (Or international bonus money). ?

I kind of think Crochet has made his last start with Sox and we see him dealt in next few days.

He is like the outfielder Sox got for one of our relievers a few years back. Sox bought on hype of Yankees prospect whose star was fading. Name escapes me but he was a top 100 guy so he fit Hahns mo of winning the headline in a trade.

Makes zero sense. Teams have tons of flexibility and he has outplayed the value of those options every year (and even in his down year this season is on track to do so again this year).

If lucky it will be a bit like Renterias first year - a rough year from a win and loss perspective but one where we start to see a first wave arrive and show some initial promise. Not saying they are positioned like that - but by August 1st, if the Sox players can’t do what they need to maximize their trade value and Getz can execute - I could see scenarios where Sox are top 2 farm system.

I think we are going to see a bunch of positional talent and depth come when they trade Robert, Crochet and Fedde. Going to guess maybe we get one high end pitching prospect but in all cases guessing best prospect will be a position player. Add in Kopech and Dejomh/Pham - not saying they get a ton for those guys - but get prospects and also find way to get international money and draft picks too. Leave no stone unturned at the trade deadline.

Man. Seeing 3 meaningless summer league games - I really like the chip and swagger that our young rookie plays with. This is most excited I’ve been about a rookie since Lauri (who we knew I loved). He is still thin and has to work on his shot - hit his handles are way better than expected and athleticism is real good for his size. Showed good basketball iq and passing. Just a lot to like - full well knowing he will have ups and downs next year while he works on those developmental areas but I like his long term potential. In general despite fact team will lose quite a few games, if they keep Lavine for part of the year (and just not play Vuc or dump Vuc cause he is just awful to watch play)….but they will be far more enjoyable to watch in terms of playing fast and having more flow to offense. Again - they will suck, but a far more enjoyable suck.

This guy is not good. A nothing burger signing.

With summer league in flight time to get a new thread and away from that old cursed thread

Let’s go!!! Time for training camp to begin!!!

Awesome - I think it’s time for a new thread with training camp starting.

Or they want to draw a fine line and don't want other team(s) agents think the Sox have $2M sitting aside that might impact their leverage in dialogue.

That has always been my view point.

I have a sneaky suspicion we will see change on the Paddy front soon.

THis - that is why I always assumed you see more of those big reaches come now (where you might take 2 stabs knowing you maybe get 1). Probably more so this year vs. past years given it seems like across the board the high schoolers have a bit of unrealistic expectations (or at least relative to what the MLB teams are willing to do). Probably a lot to still figure out related to NIL / transfer windows.

I think the difference is - Witt was part of a young nucleus all coming together where as the Sox just aren't there, hence you have to hit a hard reset and start getting the depth where it needs to be and guys aligned on timelines....than you can start playing in free agency, etc. With that said - a hard reset done right will get them in a good spot - but to really turn the corner they will have to be much better developing from within and managing the roster construction in-line with JR's free agent rules. This means they have to operate at times like the Rays and trade a guy a year early because you know you won't keep them and also be much better where they do play in free agency. As a general rule of thumb - I think the Sox front office should spend more money on buying international free agent $$$ and acquire draft picks where they can (basically increase their chances on cheap players), invest in talent development, and than don't assume JR is going to let you go 10yr on some $300M guy, which means don't plan on it - but be ready to jump in if a market isn't there to go big money on shorter-term deals (think of Cody a year ago to the Cubs type of moves) that you might get JR to jump at (and when those deals hit - the club has to be ready to move them a bit early to keep building up capital and maintaining it). Best bet at buying guys is going to be in trade market (vs. major free agent deals). Be smart when you buy, etc - and that also means they have to be successful drafting, international free agency, and on development front. I'm not expecting them to make the above all happen - cause I just assume somehow they won't - but I still go back to, as bad as the on field product is (and as much as Getz was at least part of the problem on development where I wouldn't have hired him myself) - thus far I still don't have any major issues with what he has done in a year 1 of a rebuild (with exception that I'm not big on Grifol - but I also get it - sometimes just let the guy run them into the ground).