GreenSox

Heresy!

Yes. The SOS of both Centrals was weak (obviously since they only played themselves and each other and were scorched in the playoffs). Trading Madrigal to get Grey - that's just clowning. As for Grey using his secondaries and all of that, fine. Got out and find a guy who is using the secondaries inefficiently and fix him; that way you don't pay a premium price on a pitcher who relies on secondaries.

The NL central is so winnable, why would the Brewers or Reds want to trade their good pitchers? And if they do, I suspect the price will be premium. And in the Hahn era, these trades for vets have bitten the Sox in the rear more of than not, and on both sides of the trade. Get this bullpen squared away, sign another starter and save the young pitching - they'll need it, just like they did last year. As for the Rangers asking for Vaughn and talking them down off of that - well, that's how you overpay: thinking you've accomplished something by reducing some patently ridiculous demand. Heck, in those leaked emails, the astros were asking for a top prospect for Lucas Harrel.

I really hope that the Sox don't emulate the Padres in trading for starting pitchers. But if they go down this road, it appears that the window will shrink from the 5-10 year frame to a window that fits LaRussa. Gray's a good pitcher, but an ace he is not. Trading away young pitching creates more trading away of young pitching, as you have traded away in house options to fill holes. It's a bad cycle. Resist!

Maybe in preschool as a student; no way would he be allowed to teach it.

His salary is 34% of what they paid Jay. Bargain.

Yea. A.J. Burnett was like that too. I've seen him pitch a fair amount and always liked him, but when you step back and look, the results just aren't there. He's an average pitcher, and you just can't trade much more than average prospects for average players if you want to stay ahead.

I thought Davies was basically a throw-in in lieu of the Cubs taking back some salary and to give the Cubs someone competent in the rotation. Certainly not a Cubs target. Davies could probably be had for cheap, although likely more than I'd like the Sox to pay. And I think the Sox need someone better.

That could be true, with an emphasis on "relatively speaking" ... i.e. relative to his production level.

I tell myself that that's implicit in this trade: that the Sox think that they can hold onto Lynn for 3 years so they are giving up 6/3 not 6/1. But I've heard that story before. It worked out with Freddie Garcia (although I think they pretty much knew they could sign him when they made the trade) : he pitched well and was extended. Hopefully it happens again. Although I thought the Sox gave up too much for a rent, I prefer Lynn to Darvish.

It's not a matter of the Sox FO being unwilling to make trades to help the team now; heck they did it a few weeks ago for a 1 year player. The problem is their inability to develop a rich and deep farm system that allows the team to make these trades. To get 1 year of Lynn, they had to trade a pitcher out of their rotation.

Madrigal or any top young player for Musgrove is a joke. Not to mention you close one hole and open another. The Lynn package would have been reasonable.

How about a bench bat; something we had last year, but don't have this year? One advantage to a RF platoon is that you get a bench bat in the process. Now we have 2 utility infielders.

Look elsewhere, please.

Trading a young pitcher off of the rotation for a 1 year rent looks exactly like a Hahn move. This is the same stuff that did in his last attempt at a build-up (that was a disaster). Hahn hasn't learned a thing, apparently. Signing a declining veteran isn't new to his menu either.

I figured if they could knowingly spend $8 million on Yonder Alonso, they might be able to at least hit 8 figures in a year in which they are trying to win.

You're right about that too; that's one area where they develop well.

Until I see otherwise, I am expecting a mid-range arm, with Bummer as closer and Crochet rushed into the pen.

You very well may be right about your evaluation of Dunning; he was a nice sell-high candidate (along with their young relievers, imo). But they simply didn't sell him high in this trade; especially with the lagniappe thrown in. Lynn's a 2/3; if the industry values Dunning as a 3/4, this isn't selling high.

Drake is free!

The point is that you can't buy all you need (too inconsistent and many age quickly) - you have to create them....if you don't, you will fail, as the Phillies and others have showed.

Yea it does. But closers don't need to be. Set up pitchers do. But the lack of Ks makes people think, in this era, that what he's done is luck. I could see them trading a young reliever; but they better get some real value for him. This is not 1 or 2 year window, unless they muck it up.

Engel has improved his bat in each of the last 2 seasons.

I guess that's it. And yet the Reds are peddling him. The Sox just don't have a deep enough farm, despite 5 years of high picks, to do these trades. They trade Cease and Stiever and get 1 injury and they're scrounging again. They don't have anyone to trade on the ML roster either; yea, they could trade Engel, but they could also use him in a nice RF platoon, and if he makes another step up, as he has the last 2 seasons, he's a ML regular. They need to use FA.

The Reds got Gray for a decent prospect and a comp round pick. And while he had a down year in NY, he was only a year removed from being an "ace" (well, he never really was, but that was the reputation). Now he's got this high price tag?