GreenSox

Agree - don't want the team to lose 100.

No, they just have a manager and pitching coach that think Gomez can pitch. Of course, that begs the question...

The Royals got that return. Very questionable whether the White Sox would have. They couldn't move Frazier, who's the same player as Moustakas. They had to lump him with 2 good relievers, and it's debatable whether they got the return Moustakas alone got: Rutherford has a higher ceiling I suppose, but he's a corner player. Hahn worked his entire career under Williams, so it's no surprise that they share trade negotiation skills.. The similarities abound, including each giving up a legit prospect for a pitcher having a terrible year that should have been a pure salary dump. His secondary trades have, key to the Astros, Cubs and Brewers rebuilds, have come up snake-eyes.

In the sense of intentionally trying to lose, I don't think that the tank has ever been on. In the sense of being a bad team, it probably never left...as you said, just the ups and downs.

Maybe they'd have given him a year as they didn't know they were quite ready to win. But there's no way they'd keep him to manage a ready-to-win team. Also, unlike other "modern" front offices, Theo has hired strong managers in both places (others hire managers the FO can control).

They could have done that without rebuilding. In fact, they did. And it didn't work then and it won't now. This exactly what needs to be avoided.

It's back on because the Sox have just out-tanked 2 tankers in 2 home series, and in style, losing 35-10.

Because a)I don't think that Rodon brings an ace return and b)if the rebuild is way off track, then much has been squandered already, and the remaining assets should be preserved.

The tank has arisen.....

If it isn't, trading Rodon won't accelerate the rebuild, and will only make things worse.

Shields is a hole in the rotation. Stacking a rotation with guys like Shields helped to cause this mess and will perpetuate it if Sox management continues to think players like him are the answer. If the rebuild is on track, and it certainly should be, there is no reason they have to trade Rodon.

Yes it was; good question.

This is why you STOCKPILE pitching prospects; and not have 6 or 7 and say everything's peachy. This is why you don't fritter talent and draft choices away. Who's next man up?

Davidson is not fringe. Recognizing the risk that this year is a fluke (and not the start of a fine career) , I'd still rather go forward with him than extend Abreu (which I certainly wouldn't do) Engel's D has become close to top level....he needs to work on the bat, but it's getting better. Palka is fringe....HR is all he's got. He doesn't walk, which could take the edge off of the high Ks and low BA. He's fun though. What to do with Avi? Should have moved him in July - he was hitting the last week and his OPS was still above .800 then.

The Shields trade was a massive failure in talent evaluation and negotiation. Hopefully the evaluator/negotiator has improved his game. And while I suspect it's largely FO spin, if the Sox really need Shields around to help the young pitching, they need a new pitching coach.

Unfortunately this is correct. Everyone has a 9 and a 5 they pencil in, but have a few injuries or guys that don't develop and we'll be back to depending on Hahn's drafting (which we are dependent upon anyway if the winning is to last more than a few years). And Hahn still has to put a team together.

It's hard to believe with all of the pitching defalcations that they can't move Shields.

The Sox may end up 20 below .500, which is an improvement. And I hope they do. Delmonico, Palka, Davidson are all playing for jobs - to escape AAAA purgatory. Engel wants more than 4th OF status. And they are providing that proof. But what will kill the draft status is the tanking of the Tigers and Padres; the Sox are only 6 behind a shiftless bunch of Rangers, and the Jays could do some tanking too.

I've tried to work this out. I guess you'd need 6 starter-relievers; plan on 3 innings each (that may be too many innings) and they can pitch every other day. And then a bullpen as, inevitably, some will need relief. That would leave a pen of 7 or so. You can do that relatively cheap in terms of talent and $. Trade your good starting pitching prospects and put most resources into hitting and defense. It might work...something I can see why a team like the Rays would try.

I've wondered if he can't go back to being a starter starter. Regardless, he has a WHIP near 1, averaging over 12Ks per 9...not sure why we aren't crowing about Jace Fry.

I said it a couple of weeks ago, and I'll stick with it: the Sox draft 6th, after the Orioles, Royals, Tigers, Padres and Marlins. It's not a matter of just high school, but if they don't draft better than they have over the last few seasons, it doesn't matter anyway. Some of the playing .500 for the last 2 months is foolsgold; but there is also some legit improvement.

That's the thing - Omar needs to be the primary so that he can work on his defense. Castillo needs to be moved

And, over the last month, something like 3rd in homers. If you look at these auditioned hitters (Delmonico, Leury, Davidson, Palka) - none look like stars, but all of them are pretty good and certainly good enough to find a place on the 25. The Sox are going to have to make some moves - and hopefully not just cut some of these guys. And what they still don't have is a CF and 3B; they have a catcher who can hit, but not one who can catch. But, heck, Engel's hitting is slowly improving...a little more time...

This pitcher isn't much, but because he isn't much in AA, it doesn't mean much that he's Rule 5 eligible. And Avilan isn't much either, for a major league reliever.

Of course they haven't and they won't. The last "window" was never met , but quickly forgotten once the rebuild was announced. Why should the FO bring accountability upon itself by announcing a window?