GreenSox

The talent on this team is limited, but it's not this bad. Walks, walks, walks. Where y'at, Don Cooper?

Bummer Fry Avilan just Because Sox control him for a while and he’s had some years where he wasn’t terrible

Great news!

Here's better false choice: At least it was Jones who got annihilated and not Fry. Fry was the best part of the day; I've seen Lopez do what he's done before.

Once again, you offer a completely false choice. There is no requirement for the Sox to lose if Lopez pitched well. How about holding a 3 run lead in the 9th? We know that most of the Leurys, Davidson, Delmonicos won't be here in a year or 2...they'll be upgraded. But if the Sox had their equivalent in pitching, they'd be a lot more competitive and interesting.

That's a false choice. And even if I were to buy this "All part of Hahn's great plan" revisionism, "flipping Jones" was part of it.

Yolmer is the least of the problems; Moustakas is a marginal upgrade, if that. They need to stabilize the pitching. They brought in a bunch of veteran pitchers to do that, and they are, to a man, fine additions tot the gallery that features Latos, and Holland and about 10 other veteran stiffs they've brought in the last 5 years. It's been firmly established that the problem can't be the GM; and it can't be the scouting because the GM it can't be brought in new scouts; it's can't be the iconic pitching coach.

Acquiring Shields was a bad move even if going for it - the Sox seemed oblivious to his obvious decline. And then giving something legitimate for him made it a ridiculous effort. Nevertheless, the Sox should be going for it every year. The reason they had to tear down is because their drafting, international signing (of young FAs) and development was largely impotent. It's also a big reason why the Phillies are so far ahead of them, despite far less to trade when they dispersed. The Sox have got to get that figured out.

This org. is a sanctuary for washed up veterans

Astros, Yankees and Boston will be good; Toronto very well may be too. But there should be wide open window in the Central, with the Twins probably the best of the bunch. Assuming the Sox ever reach the window...

I certainly agree with your sentiments and have expressed such many times. Unfortunately, at this point it is "howling at the moon" as this FO (and others) are in charge and there they shall stay. It's a sentimental and insular organization and it's seen in some personnel decisions where "good in the clubhouse" , for example, is over-prioritized.

Rebuilding was probably the right call. Of course it was caused by the futility of the same front office charged with the rebuild. It would have been helpful to have fresh eyes come in and make that determination. And within the little bit of "build up" that has occurred since the tear down, a lot of this front office's bad habits are still apparent.

Ridiculous reason not to take him.

It may not be CF or only CF. I've suggested before (amidst guffaws) that pitching will be an issue as well. But if they end up with a surplus/cushion in one area, they can make some moves to shore up another area. That type of thing is what the Sox GM does well (when he does it, which isn't that often).

I'm not necessarily looking to trade for a superstar or, say, a 5 year veteran..in fact, that's what I don't want. I am looking to trade, say, a corner OF prospect (a position at which Sox seem to have a some cushion) for a CF prospect or young player. The Sox are good at those type of moves...they just don't do them very often. And, always, for pitching, if the opportunity arises.

Maybe they can sign one of these superstars...that's one hole covered. But they'll still have to make a bunch of moves with the young players and prospects - packaging some up for a different young player, e.g. (like the Eaton and Davidson trades). I would think we'd see some movement in that regard between now and December. If they don't they'll end up with a nice team, but with a Noesi as one of the starting 5, etc.

Holland and Swarzak; 1 bad 1 good; and in 2016, from Rollins to Shields and several others, they were dreadful.

Jones isn't Kahnle either; doesn't have his WHIP, his Ks, or his age, And it was Kahnle and Frazier and Robertson who brought back that package (really Rutherford; the other guy was a Rule 5 eligible; and the other a lottery prospect).

For as good as the prospects that were acquired look, it's stunning how inept this org is at scouting and acquiring veterans.

I trust the process. I don't trust the processor.

Looks like an org minor leaguer; surprised it isn't "Cash considerations"

It took the Royals over a decade to build a contender from drafting and development. And their contention window was short. They just aren't very good at drafting and development. Trades? In the last 3-4 years, the Astros have traded away far more good young players than the Royals have. And the Astros are only getting better. This White Sox Front Office hasn't demonstrated that they understand the draft. Now it's "Stuff" for pitchers, and "Approach" for hitters. I guess it's better than "tools" for hitters, but still not much room for nuance. Maybe there has been an uptick from the draft, but, if so, it's modest. Even if they can build a contender ( a big IF) with these current prospects they acquired by trading away top veteran talent, the window will be short if they keep drafting the way they have been.

I seriously doubt the FO thought it would be this bad. In a normal organization, jobs would be on the line, including the vaunted pitching coach, who, despite his rep., has rarely fielded a top staff despite some top talent.

I don't care about the "unwritten rules" of baseball; I do care about players trying to steal when down 5-0: The reward isn't close in value to the risk.

Good results were expected in 2013, 2015, and 2016, and Hahn didn't get them, nor did he lose his job.