GreenSox

This front office sure has an eagle-eye for veteran talent.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Apr 5, 2018 -> 06:41 PM) We may need to trade a couple of prospects to shore up the bullpen. That's the last thing they should do. Such trades brought Soria and Shields here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 5, 2018 -> 12:26 PM) You have to play him to figure it out. He has shown in the past he is talented enough to be on a major league roster. The Sox should still be in talent accumulation mode, and Saladino is a part of that process. Can he be optioned to Charlotte?

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 09:33 PM) I don't understand what the benefit of tanking would be this year. We have a lot of high end talent and a top 5 pick this year. We need to start growing for personal reasons and to attract free agents. I don't either. But there just isn't enough pitching on the major league roster or at AAA to avoid it being a bad team. I don't think they are tanking really...just playing the cards they have (although they created those low cards).

I bet it annoys some Sox players as well. The whistle is just stupid clowning. Boston should be told to knock it off.

I'm still looking for this reputed excess pitching depth. The rotation has 2 starters. 3 needed. Okay, I'll add Rodon - 2 needed. The bullpen has one keeper, Jones, who will likely be traded; and perhaps Bummer. The rest are stiffs. 7 needed. That's a total of 9 pitchers needed. Okay, I'll add Fulmer to the pen (kind of a compromise) and that's 8 needed Total of leaving absolutely no depth. Using a prospect wash-out rate of 50% (which is really way too low), that means 16 pitchers are needed just to get to 5 and 8 (in contrast, the Astros have 8 starters). In a best-case scenario, the Sox need 16 legitimate pitching prospects. Oh sure there is free agency (crapshoot) fo a spot or two. And they could trade (the Sox record on trading FOR veterans, is, to be kind, less than exemplary). Stockpile the pitching.

The Sox two best hitting prospects are likely corner OF (Robert could play CF as of now I guess). Moving Avi might make some sense as the Sox should have depth there. Don't see much in the 1B pipeline though (I would think that Davidson might learn the position). No objection to extending Abreu, unless they see signs of decline. Don't see any reason to sign veterans for the sake of veteran leadership; get them to plug holes or shore up the pitching, based on talent need. As of now, 40% of the 25 man consists of veterans anyway.

No He's a horrible defender, and that's the last thing the young Sox pitchers need behind them. And he's not a great hitter either.

When trading for a guy like this, I'd think that they see an aspect of his game that they can change/improve/fix. Glad to see them switching something right off the bat. And Lip, you're on double-secret probation for that one.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Mar 29, 2018 -> 07:01 PM) We have our young guys locked in for 5 or 6 years at non crazy salaries, even with ARB. That will be it for our window as we'll have to replace a few with young guys we draft etc. The good news is we'll have Abreu, Garcia, Shields, and Anderson's contracts off the books. I would say that only Shields belongs on that "good news" list. And yes Avi should be moved if a premium offer is made; Sox have some depth at his position.

2017 was Davidson's first major league season. This idea that young players must produce immediately and will take only minor steps back once hitting the majors, or else they aren't any good is loopy. Sure a few prosper immediately, but most don't.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Mar 2, 2018 -> 07:07 AM) I might sound crazy but 78, 80, 82 wins doesn't sound too far fetched Now look at the starting pitching. 2 or 3 developing youngsters who, hopefully, pitch like mid-rotation guys. Shields, with the improved arm slot, could be a solid #5. Gonzalez who's around a #7. Santiago? maybe a 5. Fulmer?

For goodness sakes, what a bad idea. Heyman did mention "top prospect." Fine, get a top 50 prospect, then the WhiteSox should release him.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 06:19 PM) When has Tilson not hit? Tilson problem isn't hitting it's a lack of power but still he could put up a 700 ish OPS with just his hitting tool alone and with his plus plus speed be a 2-3 WAR ish CF like Dyson.Honestly, when has Tilson really hit? He hasn't had an OPS over .800 since rookie leagues. At .700ish OPS, Tilson needs Dyson range, or he's really not helping. I would put Engel in AAA...he was rushed into the majors. See if he can improve on his hitting...as it is now, the bat is too much of a liability, but his D is worthy of an opportunity to develop the bat. What is Cordell's real position?

I would think and hope Narvaez.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:44 PM) Sure you can. He’d get plenty of AB’s as a super utility guy this year. Isn’t that where he should be on a contending club anyway? Yolmer improved his 3-season OPS by over .130 last year. If he takes another step up, he may be more than a utility infielder. The "super utility" guy would be more likely Leury, as he can play OF. He had a similar improvement in OPS, but he also had a bump the prior year (in AAA and the majors). It's pretty clear they can be utility players...the quest is to see if they can become more. But even discovering utility players is helpful - the Sox spent large sums on utility level veterans this decade.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:55 AM) So many moving pieces...Rutherford, Collins/Zavala, Cease, Burdi, Burger, Adolfo, Dunning...need to not flame out, or at least hit expectations. With the Cubs, it is now an incredible young catcher, Happ and Hendricks offsetting Soler, Schwarber and Zobrist/Heyward (obviously, the last two contributed something in 2016). But even the Cubs are playing with fire on the bullpen side of the equation, as well as the health of Lester/Darvish. We all know that only Buehrle and Garland came out of that incredible BA #1 1999-2000 pitching group...and that the real keys were nearly perfect trades for Garcia and Contreras to put them over the top. The Astros have Springer, Correa, Altuve as stars. Probably Bregman too. Cubs have Rizzo, Bryant and Contreras. Will the Sox have 3 or 4 young players at that level in 2 years? I doubt it. I think they'll have a number at the Happ level, however. Which is why I want them to stockpile the pitching. Astros and Cubs were light on pitching - Sox can get their championship via a different route....closer to the Royals: solid across the board, with top shelf pitching. The best 3 eras of the Sox in my life had starting pitching as the greatest strength: 83, 93 and 05. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:27 AM) Castillo? Yea, meant Gurriel. I was thinking of Rusney Castillo I guess

Moustakas is a hole-plugger. A good hole-plugger, but he's not a cornerstone player. The problem is, we don't know where the holes will be in a year or 2. We can assume it won't be corner OF or 2B. We have a good amount of pitching in the pipeline. But after that? We have 2 catchers in the org, both of whom are a long way away. We don't have much in CF. I thought L. Garcia showed promise, but even if he fully develops, what exactly do we have? An average CF or slightly above. And the Sox have a couple of others at about that level. Anderson should improve at SS - but if he does, we're probably looking at Alexei. Not exactly a Correa. So, really, even if some of the guys develop, they will be slightly above average players....we already have our Moustakas'. Sure one non-heralded prospect could really pop - we'll see. But I'm more confident in 2 or 3 of the Delmonico's/Leurys popping into rosterable players, not stars. The Astros went into last year with overt weak-spots at 1B, LF and starting pitching. It would have also been RF, but they signed Reddick. So what happened? 33 year old e[edit] Gurriel has a great year. Marwin Gonzalez, barely a .700 OPS hitter over several years, balloons to .900 OPS. Marisnick, who couldn't hit .700 OPS, exceeds .800 OPS as a 4th outfielder. 33 year old Charlie Morton has a career year and they trade for Verlander. Career years are common in WS winners. But regardless, the Astros were solid at most positions. Then filled their holes.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 10:32 AM) My guess is that he’ll be bouncing between AAA and the majors...no idea why so many are high on Delmonico. Because we finally have someone who can take pitches and walks, without hitting .202. That's why I'm excited about him. Several players (beyond the elite prospects) have to break out for this rebuild to work. So far, so good with Delmonico

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 08:09 AM) Yes, they did, in 2015. When Moustakas was 27 years old and put up a nearly 4-win season -- which is something he hasn't even sniffed since. In 2020, he'll be 32 years old. The Cardinals won a World Series in 2011 with Albert Pujols in the middle of their lineup. That doesn't mean that should be the Angels' plan now. And this.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 05:35 PM) Neither does Moustakas. He's a lefty, yes, but if he's in the middle of our lineup in 2020, that means it probably isn't a playoff-caliber lineup. This

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 06:07 PM) He’d be a potential flip candidate. The 600+ DH plate appearances are an asset and the Sox have to decide what is the best use of them. Correct - and I believe Leury, Delmonico, and even Davidson, and others are better use for those 600+plate appearances. He crowds out a corner outfield spot, which would mean both are taken with Avi. So we flip him - what are we going to get? A B prospect. We have a lot of B prospects, who need playing time. And let's not forget we'll probably have to TRADE a B prospect to get him, so the "flip" idea is somewhat tenuous. L Garcia produced 1.1 WAR in 1/2 a season. Delmonico is 1 WAR in 1/4 of a season. IN both cases, the players played a position in which they had little experience and are highly likely to improve defensively (Leury had some experience in the OF; Delmonico had very little). But the bottom line to me is that Dickerson is a bottom 3 hitter on a championship team. i.e. you use him to plug a hole, not as part of a foundation. And he's a bad defender, and the Sox don't need that. Way too early to plug holes with veterans.

The Sox have outfield prospects out the wazzu. With Delmonico, they finally have someone who takes pitches without batting .200. He has a chance to turn into a really good hitter. I'd like to see how he plays out. I just don't get the zeal for Dickerson. High K, low OBP, bad defense, some power. It is the profile that the Sox like. But such players will always be in ample supply, if the Sox insist on one.

Dickerson is another low OBP guy who strikes out a lot. Part of the rebuild is changing the low OBP/high K part of the previous Sox philosophy. And the Sox have a lot of OF prospects. No

I don't think that any serious observer has argued otherwise. I haven't read anyone suggest that 3 2-War players = 1 6 war player. No one would trade Chris Sale for 3 Melkys.