GreenSox

These kind of trades just don't go well for the White Sox: all-in on some veteran. And I know "none of the prospects turned out to be squat." Yea, but the veterans we acquire don't end up doing squat either ; and we didn't have the prospects then that we do now.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) Who here would do Cease + Fulmer for Machado? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I have a feeling I’ll be in the minority on this one. It's obviously a bargain, but still hurts the White Sox, so no. Any contender would and should do that.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 21, 2017 -> 01:26 AM) Why not wait to see what positions we are going to have holes at before making a big trade? Agree

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) Dodgers have a lot of prospects, no doubt about it. And yet they aren't trading any of them away for 1 year rents of FA targets next year so that they can demonstrate first-hand, that Dodger culture. And they actually dumped a bunch of declining veterans! Morons

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:45 PM) Yes Lopez and Anderson, with Anderson then being packaged to try and get Duffy Good lord.

Any deal involving prospects (except for organizational minor leaguers) or young major league players would vitiate Hahn's claim that he is doing everything in terms of long-term sustainability.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) Therefore, I don't see Hahn letting Cease go. It seems more likely that something like 2 of the following might work: Fulmer, Stevens or Adams. Even then, I would be reluctant to include Fulmer. They shouldn't move any of them. Nothing at all to be gained. And it distracts them from continuing to amass young talent and moving tradeable assets. They refused to give the rebuild much more than a year last time and the FO is apparently is hell-bent on repeating its mistake.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:27 PM) We have the raw talent right now to be better than the 2017 Astros were by 2020. We just need enough of it to work out. We have 1 fewer young stud ready to go around the diamond than them (Altuve, Correa, Springer/Moncada + Jiminez) but we've got a comparable amount of depth, if we can develop some guys...and we have WAY more pitching than they ever dreamed of having this season. Like it's not even a discussion. Their big acquisition was Verlander to fill that need, so we could use one more major player around the diamond. I agree with you. I just don't understand this apparent zeal to deteriorate that talent. And the other effect of this bizarre strategy is not trading Abreu, which, honestly, they really should do

I don't think that the Sox are that far off in terms of raw talent....it will just take a year or 2 to get ready. Trading away some of that talent under this pie in the sky notion that Machado likes playing with Abreu et al so much that he'll sign on the cheap, will make things worse (which presumably is the idea; otherwise, just outbid everyone, which obviously gives you the best chance to sign him). Heck Abreu is a better hitter than Machado. Extend him. Watch Avi for a year, extend him if it's for real. Sanchez handles D at 3rd exquisitely; that will work if it's the only offensive hole. Wait for the other guys, and develop that pitching depth (don't trade it!)

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:04 PM) If anything they should be selling off Abreu and Garcia figure out what they have for next year when it comes to prospects figure out a bullpen (move guys in and out) and get things squared away for next year. That's when the next wave of talent will happen Of course. The best way to get Machado is to a) amass the most talent you can between now and then (instead of depleting it) and b) (dare I suggest) OFFER Him more money than the other suitors.

Cards aren't blowing anything up. Player movement often helps to prevent the need. And hopefully the Sox don't have to blow the place up ever again.

To outbid teams who would use Machado to win this year, in order to retain a 9 month negotiating window, is utter madness. Do they not see how disastrous the similar moves they made in 2014- June 2016 were? Who is the best major league player that Hahn has acquired? Eaton, without question. Acquired for 1 young pitcher. And yet Hahn wants to make more of the Samardzija type deals, where he piles on prospects, that failed miserably. (the Frazier deal was a similar dud).

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 06:52 PM) There obviously is a tier you could trade for him Not one that the Orioles would accept. Orioles can hold and trade him in July for far more than the Sox should pay. (so could the Sox; but they won't) Teams that can win NOW will offer them a reasonable amount. Hahn would have to top that. And that wouldn't be worth the value he brings to the Sox this year....which is basically nothing. Hahn has done great work as a tear down artist - both in 2016-17 and in 2013; but, apparently, they refuse to finish the job and want to revert to the bad habits of 2014-June 2016.

Davidson is more productive than this guy. Honestly....

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) Yeah but I cant imagine the Sox really trading their top tier. They shouldn't trade any tier for him.

It's an understandable projection, given his BAPIP. But that just means hold onto him....won't get much by trading him, but if he builds on last year, his value escalates significantly.

I would like to see the Sox take a position player; they can take a pitcher in round 2 - always a lot. ONe that strikes me is Jason Martin of the Astros. He's only 22, hit pretty well in the Carolina League, and can play CF. Astros are the best in the biz re developing talent.

Machado makes no sense- that's pure wishcasting to believe that 1 year of his services would substantively help the Sox. Yelich makes some sense (although one might wonder why trade Eaton then) - could possibly turn Abreu/Avi into Yelich with a 3 or 4-way deal. And the other thing is that Machado did have a lousy year last year; certainly would like to see a substantive rebound from that before going all in.

Utter madness. This would be a repeat of December 14-June 16 clownshow, only more idiotic. Further he had a whopping 2.8 WAR last season; at least wait and make sure that was a glich.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) Reading through a Red Sox message board, I’m actually surprised at how many posters would deal JBJ for Abreu. They really think they have a two year window and many of them are committed to doing everything they can maximize that opportunity. Such a plan could include trading JBJ for Abreu, moving Benintendi to CF, and signing a replacement OF in free agency. DD is definitely going to do something drastic now that the Yankees added Stanton. Maybe there’s more of a match here then some of us think. Bradley is controlled for only 1 more year than Abreu. Red Sox have an alarming lack of power. It's a more a question of why the Whitesox would want to trade Abreu for Bradley.

Frazier has a lot of swing and miss in his game and his minor league stats don't stand out. And re prospect rankings, he's top 50, but never elite. Let's not get carried away. Yolmer was 2 war last year and finally had a light go on offensively. His offensive ceiling is probably not terribly high, but it may also be very solid. The major leagues are replete with players who weren't top prospects and/or turned it on a little later. This is the time for the Sox to find out what they have. Leury (showed great improvement), Cordell, Tilson - Sox have some people to audition in CF (I hope Engel goes to AAA to work on hitting)..

Just stockpile the young pitching....it will sort itself out starters/relievers. My be the way to go anyway...Zig with pitching while everyone else Zags with hitting.

Yolmer would return a B prospect or 2, who's ceiling is probably current Yolmer. No need to trade him.

2 of them (plus others) acquired for Carlos Gomez. Man the Astros have a farm system. That mess of a trade didn't even put a dent in them.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) I don't know how people read that and think "the cubs are cool" instead of "god the cubs are insufferable" Amen!