GreenSox

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 07:25 AM) You are starting to lose it. The Padres had to eat over half of his contract to move Shields. The Sox only took on $27M for 2 1/2 years of control. That's about how much Verlander makes in one season. And the Tigers aren't going to eat any money while also expecting quality prospects in return. The situations aren't even remotely comparable. There is similarity - Verlander is just more expensive. Verlander makes $28 million per; Shields $22 million per. Verlander has 3.5 years left; Shields had 2.5 years left. Verlander's 2 years younger than Shields - so by the time the contract liability is paid out, both will be of the same age. If the Tigers sell it for the same percentage that the Padres did, the buyer would be on the hook for about $44 million ($7, $13, $13, $11) for 3.5 years of team control. Certainly more $ and years than Shields (Who also inexplicably cost prospects), but to do a deal like this, the acquiring team has to be looking in the past. And Verlander's past was better. Maybe someone would bite if they cut it to $30 million. I hope the Tigers are stuck with him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Point is we desperately need to add to our positional core. I actually feel pretty good about our pitching depth. I'd argue it's in the top 2 in baseball along with the Braves. The pitching may be top 2 in baseball, but if you use a 2 prospects for 1 major leaguer equation, it's still light. They'll need 5 major leaguers (4 with Rodon plus at least 1 extra for debt). As for positional players, I certainly agree that the Sox are lite...But in contrast to pitching, they have some young positional players on the Major league roster who might be keepers. Yolmer and Leury performed like major league starters....now they would be the weakest starters on a championship team, they may be bench players ultimately, but they were capable. And there are others who have shown some glimpses. In pitching, nothing beyond Kahnle.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 08:06 AM) It's fine that you THINK that Sale should have returned that, but organized baseball simply doesn't agree. Hahn shopped the hell out of Sale for months and took the highest bid he received. The same will hold true for Q. Presumably Hahn got offers in December (we don't exactly know what they were) which established the market, but he passed. Now the market is different in July, so we'll see. I'm just not convinced that Q, for who much of the value is contract and control, gets substantially higher offers in July than December....whether enough to offset the 60% of 1 season less value the receiving party gets for him. And then the question becomes, do they move him for best offer, even if they don't like it, or hold again for better offer (which certainly one would think would be a good bit less than last December). We'll find out. I'm okay with moving Q to the Cubs - with Jiminez as the centerpiece. None of this Schwarber stuff - DH is the last position to fill in a rebuild. I doubt the Cubs want to send their last elite prospect across town anymore than the Sox want to send Q to the northside.

the Sox can get multiple years of value by trading him; 1 year (maybe 2020) by keeping him. Gotta trade him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 01:56 PM) Joe Ross just left with an injury for the Nats. Velocity was scary low for him today And a thin staff as it is. Come to Papa Hahn, Rizzo...he'll make it all better.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) It's their 2nd, 3rd and 6th best prospects for a SP who's ERA is 4 and WHIP is 1.3. Per the recent BA list, the top 4 are Rodgers, Tapia, Pint (77) and McMahon. #77 headiner is lite.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 11:28 AM) I understand what your point is here, but just in the last 6 months or so, our perspective on so many of these guys' perceived value has been altered. That will certainly happen AFTER many of these guys have been traded to us as well. I've just learned to not overreact as much to any short-term success or struggles of any of these guys. True but in my memory, HS pitching has never been the Sox draft preference; that's essentially what they'd get, just a year hence and some pretty questionable results during that year. From the Sox perspective, I think he'd have to be deeply discounted, which means not a headliner.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) Meanwhile I feel like Kahnle has given up a run or more in his last 3 outings yea, but they have time to trade him, so given the choice, I'd rather Kahnle struggle a little than Swarzak or Robertson. I don't know Coors Field well enough to judge those deep fly balls; it didn't look like Hanson played it well, but it didn't look to me like the Rockies OF played fly balls well either (Rockies could probably use an upgrade to their OF defense). And after that, Kahnle pitched fine.

This man was the hero last night and recently. He got the Sox out of the big jam. And then pitches another inning. He did the same thing the last game the Sox won, protecting Rodon's W. Robertson and Q are holding their value, but Swarzak's should be soaring.

They have to move Frazier. No need to keep him around or re-sign him. Davidson's fine for a stop gap, plus an audition to see if he's more.

Some Brewers Brinson 16 Woodruff 43 Hader 61 (fell from 31) Ortiz 67

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 06:36 AM) How about when the Astros recently traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez? That's a really good example because Fields was far worse than any pitcher that anyone contemplates the Sox trading. It would be like getting something for Pelfrey. One can just look at pure scrap-heap pickups to find gems: start with everyone's favorite team - the Brewers - and Jesus Aguilar.

North - has anyone seen Louie Lechich? He's a minor prospect i know, just one I find intriguing. His stats are good, other than he walks way too many. Just wondering how he is progressing.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 06:42 AM) Verlander/Avila to Cubs for Almora and a few minor league pitchers Let's see if the Cubs have any interest in the Sox 1.5 WHIP pitchers. I assume that Verlander has kept his velocity or most of it (considering the apparent demand for his services) but he's also 34.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 07:36 PM) We're talking about a guy who if all goes well could conceivably land an Andrew Miller type return in just a few years, while other potential guys at that spot could very still be in the minors. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't waste an early pick on just any reliever, but I think a guy like Burdi is well worth it. Of course that's only if he turns out to be the absolute elite. What if he turns out to be a really good reliever- say David Robertson. I guess we'll found out soon enough what the flip value is. A really good position player or starter is simply worth more. And, obviously an elite starter or position player is worth a lot more than an elite reliever.

The best relievers - the tippy top -are, what 3 WAR players? Ceiling 3 WAR is not a judicious use of a first round pick. Burdi was the reputed "fastest to the majors" guy in the draft. And the Sox needed bullpen help and were taking their last "we're still in it" gasps at the time. They wouldn't have drafted him in a rebuild. But he looks like a good pitcher, so it's fine.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) I can buy your premise if the guys we get for Swarzak have a chance to help a contending team someday but I severely doubt that. A lot of good major league players were nondescript prospects when acquired. Acquire enough of them, and you will hit on some. It's a no-lose situation to trade players who are impending FAs, which includes Swarzak.

QUOTE (striker @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) If he starts closing, he get's more expensive as well, which would impact his trade value. That's certainly true; Andrew Miller had good trade value ( and a low arb salary) with Boston without closing. Speaking of 27 year olds - Miller's another one who wasn't productive until around 27.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) Why are you arguing against the sox shooting high? The Reds guy has more value, and should cost more, but that doesnt mean the sox should start with a lowball offer I'm not arguing against them shooting high and I agree they should neither start (and this is beyond the start) nor accept a lowball offer. I am arguing for being realistic, esp. as other relievers start crowding the market.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) The Nats have no leverage, are a legitimate WS contender besides their bullpen, and literally need 4 or 5 arms. The asking price should be astronomical. You can always lower it later. Their leverage will increase when and if more closers hit the market. The Reds' guy has twice Robertson's value: younger, cheaper, more control, having a better year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:21 AM) Yeah, after this winter, hopefully they are asking for Soto and offering no salary relief. He's #12 in BP. That would be a heist. Robertson's not worth that (or even close to that).

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) If teams want Robles/Soto, I could see why the Nats are aiming higher than Robertson. True, but I hope it's not the Sox asking for one of those 2 because it's not realistic and not happening.

Just hope the Royals keep playing well...they have a lot of good players to sell, should they desire. But they have a real chance at the division and have one kernel of hope that gives them a chance at the big banana: they won the Seasonal Series v Astros (small sample size, admittedly). Swarzak would be a nice, affordable, add to their bullpen.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 09:52 AM) Agreed. Even if the best offer isn't great, you gotta pull the trigger. For the sake of getting anything back and opening a spot for someone else on the roster. Unless there are multiple suitors for Frazier, which I don't see, the Sox will get less than Frazier's true production value. Other teams know that he has no value to the Sox in holding him, so they don't have to offer top dollar. Hahn will have to pull the trigger anyway, as you said. The same is true for Swarzak and I think Robertson, too (the Sox retain some value by holding Robertson, but it falls off a lot)...but there should be multiple suitors for those 2, which should help the return.

Tatis #22