GreenSox

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Mar 4, 2017 -> 05:48 PM) Hayes is surprising some people. Wouldn't mind to see him get 1B/DH duties if Davidson doesn't do well to begin the year The Sox really will need a couple of the Hayes/Davidson types to stick. And then they need time to verify that they really are players. And that makes it even more critical to move these vets out.

It's possible I suppose that they could play well for a month or two. But it's not sustainable. Now if they do, it's essential that the Front Office suppress its instincts and keep their head on the task at hand in the real world. That little dance in fantasy land last June was costly. The FO's main job between now and 7/30 is to dispatch the veterans. Stay focused, Hahn.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 3, 2017 -> 08:09 AM) Toughest thing about Price potentially going down is the sheer number of innings he gave the Red Sox. It's not easy to replace a guy who pitched 230 innings for you last season, even with internal options. Losing that workhorse hurts a ton if he misses any significant time I highly doubt they would get into the mix for Quintana. It would raid the rest of an already weakened farm system I would prefer the Sox not do a big trade with the Red Sox. We would have an overload of prospects from one farm system. How do the stock market guys put it when there's a lack of diversification - systematic risk or something like that? I'd rather pick through a different farm system. And I know that each individual prospect is individual evaluated. Still they have the same training the same development regimens- a little diversification would spread the risk, imo.

This Will be the first international signing in which the Sox are in rebuild mode. So diving in doesn't necessarily represent a complete about-face regarding the prior approach. Remember just before the last signing period, the Sox traded their probably best international signee for James Shields; now that they're in rebuild mode, perhaps it is logical from the Sox perspective to put the money into player development and signings versus money into stop gap veterans. They are just shifting the resources to younger talent. The only real analytical stretch is that it assumes that the Front Office will act rationally, which they don't always do.

The Yankees should make a move now, and get a head start on the now flawed RedSox by taking the only #1 level pitcher on the market right now. I think they have a pretty good team as it is. They have quality in the low minors which should appeal to the Sox on currrent timeline.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 28, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) How are they rebuilding at a snail's pace? They traded away 2 of their biggest assets within a day of each other. 3 trades in 2 trading periods, from a team with 8-10 players that need to be moved. Maybe not a snail, but not a greyhound either. On another topic, they should be working L Garcia. He's the real super sub, his O, while still dismal, has improved, and with some more improvement it would be acceptable for a super sub. The advantage of a guy like him is that he can take the position of the no-hit 4th OF and the no-hit utility infielder, saving a spot on the roster for another hitter, or, dare I suggest, actually platooning a LF or RF (when we get some platoonable players). Saladino should be 2B now. Well at this point, I suppose they should try to dress Lawrie up for 1/2 a season and see if they can get something for him, and then let Saladino handle 2nd full time.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 28, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) Maybe Hahns plan to get the top of the elite guys is flawed then? He should be trying to get quantity instead of quality? Thanks for making me doubt the whole damn rebuilding plan. He needs to get guys who haven't peaked, recognize talent, understand value, and be able to, at least to some extent, separate the real prospects from the frauds.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 28, 2017 -> 07:04 AM) Pass, don't really see the point. Might as well give a kid like Davidson those at-bats. Indeed Singing Alvarez makes no sense in the real world

Jones just needs to close some games to show ithat he can do it. That can and should occur with Robertson still on the roster. Probably equally as important as proof that a relief pitcher can throw multiple innings if necessary. These modern analytic front offices look at overall effectiveness of a pictcher moreso than "closer these days. See Andrew Miller. Overall Hahn needs to be much more insistent with Renteria than he was with Ventura about the real goals here: maximize value for these veterans with winning games secondary

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 18, 2017 -> 08:57 AM) Honestly, 2018 could be worse than 2017. Probably will be although Melky, Frazier et al will only be contributing for 60% or so of the season if Hahn does his job. That's fine. 62 wins or 72 wins....no difference if you are actually trying to build a winning organization.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 17, 2017 -> 01:42 AM) Theo took over the cubs in 2011 and that's pretty much when their rebuild started. Theo had his work cut out for him due to the horrible contracts Hendry left in his wake, namely Soriano and Dumpster who's contracts made them difficult to trade. Once those contracts were gone, which required them to eat money to be rid of them, the pace of their rebuild did pick up but it still took a good 4-5 years. Trading Sale and Eaton has already put the Sox ahead of the cubs/Astros rebuild pace. Imagine how much further along the Sox will be when Q is traded. There's potential to move even further along if the Sox are able to get some kind of value for Robertson, Frazier and possibly Jones at the deadline. Now add the June draft and July intl signings and the Sox organization will be in really good shape going into next winter. That's the issue. The Cubs got key pieces for mediocre pitchers like Feldman and Dempster. They got a great piece for a good pitcher Samardzija. (to be fair, Cubs also gave away LeMahieu in the dispersal process). A lot of that, coupled with the Rizzo gift, is good fortune - honestly, if the Sox December trades end up with what the Cubs got for Feldman/Dempster/Samardjija that will be pretty good, despite the fact that the Sox traded the vastly superior players. In addition to the players you mentioned, Sox might also have Gonzalez and maybe (if we get really lucky) Shields nicely dressed up to be dealt in July. Out of that whole second tier group, the Sox need to come away with a couple of keepers. But that's a lot of players to trade in basically one trading period, including Q, whom the Sox haven't been able to move. Every team is set up differently. The Sox had a lot more quality to trade than either the Cubs or Astros (who got very little out of its dispersal).

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 16, 2017 -> 08:29 PM) Look how long it took the cubs and Astros to rebuild their organizations. Cubs did it pretty quickly; Astros took a while. But the dispersals did not take particularly long. Sox are still in dispersal phase, and have moved 3 players in 2 major trading periods (July and Winter 16). And 2 of the 3 were deemed "bad for clubhouse." A touch of urgency might be in order.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2017 -> 10:23 AM) Chicago White Sox40 mins · “We don’t view it as everyone in that locker room needs to be moved to serve the next championship White Sox club. A lot of those players are hopefully going to play key roles on that next club." - Rick Hahn, who spoke with the media yesterday during Day 1 of #SoxSpringTraining. That would include Anderson, Rodon, maybe Saladino and perhaps they get fortunate with a Tilson/Davidson type. If you stretch it Quintana, Jones and Abreu, but 2 if not 3 of those will need to be moved to get the requisite talent on hand to compete for a WS (unless the Sox drastically improve their drafting, evaluation, development and willingness to sign internationally). There is absolutely no reason to bring up any of the top prospects this year. They would be a reversion to clowning 101.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) This is a valid concern and a concern I've expressed over the winter. The Sox should be willing to eat money on Melky/Frazier/Robertson whoever to get a better prospect/package. Yes, they haven't done this in the past, but they've also have never gone on a full rebuild so who knows. I hope ownership allows Hahn to operate this way but we'll see. Eating money is a necessity to doing a legitimate rebuild. While they've never eaten salary (that I can remember) for players they traded away, they have done so recently for players they dumped for nothing. They also took on salary for a bad player last June. So it wouldn't make sense for ownership not to let Hahn eat money to get better prospects.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 12:02 AM) Are you real? You suggest keeping those players, let their contracts run out and get nothing for them? On another note, as for Robertson, his value could increase by holding onto him for a couple of months. He's likely to have a bounce back year- worth the risk unless someone offers a real intriguing prospect. They can still give Jones closing opportunities. And while closing opportunities would help Jones, there also is a risk with Jones that he simply doesnt pitch as well as his peripherals indicated he pitched last year. Hahn has a tightrope to walk- his patience is probably the correct approach with both players.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Miami is definitely better than the Sox. San Diego and Philadelphia are the only ones that are definitely worse IMO. 1. Anderson SS 2. Abreu 1B 3. Cabrera LF 4. Frazier 3B 5. Davidson DH 6. Lawrie 2B 7. Garcia RF 8. Soto C 9. Tilson CF That's a bad offense. Especially considering Cabrera, Frazier and Lawrie, and perhaps Abreu, should be on the first train out of town.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 11, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) The absolute dumbest thing the White Sox can do for their rebuild is take too little for Q. If it means holding on to him, that is the smart thing to do. It has nothing to do with front office favoritism. Yes, but you have to be flexible and have some finesse when doing so. There are a number of ways to get value. What is "too little" today becomes "market value" soon enough if the Sox hold onto him. Last July, Benintendi was "too little" and by December he was too much. And there are risks attached with any pitcher; I think hesitation until after the WBC is plausible and understandable. Q has always seemed to me to be a better winter trade candidate than July. Much of his value is in contract amount and length. These things are most important and valuable to teams as they plan out their organization and team for the next year and in the future. In July, the priorities shift to someone who can pitch well, not for 3 years, but for 4 months. Contract and length aren't as important. Q needs to be moved.

If he could frame, I'd be all for it. of course if he could frame, he probably would've received the qualifying offer and would've been signed by someone two months ago.

Makes sense..they needed some roster flexibility. It was a good time to push someone through waivers.

These are really good interviews. Thanks for conducting them/posting them. But goodness, listening to Hahn drives me up the wall. He says that rebuilding has been under major consideration for a while....and yet, just a few months before, they make the Shields trade, which is the exact opposite type of move you make in a rebuild (not to mention how they used draft). I guess it's just serious front-office disagreement on things...hopefully they are all on the same page.

Sure the Sox could win 77 games if Holland/Shields/Gonzalez each pitch to an ERA, say, of 4 or a little less, the bullpen is a little sturdier (which it actually should be), Anderson gets better offensively et al....AND if Hahn halts the tear down of the team. But tear-down should be priority 1 (and 2, 3, 4, 5....) this season. If after a couple of months, Holland/Shields/Gonzalez are pitching with ERAs below 4 and decent peripherals, Hahn should be moving these players ASAP (not to mention Frazier, Melky, Robertson, et al). Teams like the Phillies and Brewers and Braves should be improving because they have basically completed the tear-down phase of their rebuild. Their young players will be called up and they should be getting better. Until the tear-down is finished, Moncada et al shouldn't be anywhere near the major league team. Maybe Burdi, but only if the intent is to flip him. Williams and Hahn are just going to have to suppress their instincts re moving players up. Otherwise, the Sox will be in the same position in 2019 that they were in 2016. And on a side note, they need to be willing to eat salary when disposing of players, or this is not a serious effort at rebuilding.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 5, 2017 -> 10:04 PM) Makes me think Q stays The guy they took in Rule 5 is Q's replacement. A Q trade dependent on signing Hammel would be idiotic.

Hammer to Royals. More supply off the market. Every little bit helps.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 06:18 PM) Really the whole rebuild right now hinges on Moncada. I dont like the idea of building a roster that coddles one player, but in this case its imperative that Moncada is given every chance to succeed and become an MVP type player. If he doesn't the hill becomes a lot, lot steeper for the White Sox. I didn't see any superstar Royal position players in 14-15 nor Indians in 2016. The Sox had a superstar pitcher and couldn't do a thing with him. Just get solid at every position and above average on at least half of them. The Sox won 78 games with solid at about 1/2 (or less) of the positions and above average at 3 or 4.

The Sox obviously could have had Iglesias if they had wanted him. I think Middlebrooks was the player Boston was pushing. Yes, Avi is clearly a KW type player. But whether Hahn is really any different, or that KW still doesn't have major stroke in personnel decisions, remains to be seen. I don't know if Hahn would be any better (after all, he did make the Shields trade) but he can't be any worse. It's a dead season so no reason not to throw Avi out there...there really isn't anyone more worthy of an audition at this point. His BB rate is good (especially for someone who doesn't get pitched around) and it's hard to understand why he doesn't make better contact. He could be a late bloomer, and he could improve although I suspect that that has a better chance of happening, unfortunately, with a different organization and some fresh eyes who might see something about his swing/approach. But I hope he can turn it around and no reason not to give him the chance.