GreenSox

Law had the Sox at 12 or 15 - something like that - 2 years ago. We went backwards the next year, per his rankings He likes Hahn.

To me, the question was Coats or Kahnle. With 6.6 BB/9, I'd have voted Kahnle to the outbox. Not sure what the Sox see in him now or when they traded for him.

QUOTE (GermanSoxFan @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 03:16 PM) The Rangers had no qualms about trading Demeritte for Lucas freaking Harrell. He isn't good enough to be a substantial piece for Q. Maybe in as a throw in like Diaz in the Sale trade. That's as good an indication of his market value as anything...traded for a AAAA pitcher. QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 03:13 PM) Braves are not giving us Albies + Newcomb + Demeritte + Gohara/Fried That is three top 75 prospects (according to fansided) plus Demeritte I can't see Atlanta punting so much of its future like that, even for Quintana Isn't that about what Q is worth? 3 top 75 prospects? Maybe it doesn't make sense for Atlanta to do that, but Q is worth that.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:17 PM) http://sportsmockery.com/2017/01/mlb-insid...uintana-trades/ Breakdown of suggested deals Astros = Martes + Tucker + Paulino Pirates = Bell + Keller + Newman/Tucker Yankees = Mateo + Judge + Rutherford + Tate Rockies = Dahl + Rodgers Thoughts guys? I know sports mockery is usually trash, but this is from a former GM Astros - need more; switch out Paulino Pirates - add on back end Yankees- not sure; nix to Judge Rockies - Absolutely Yes

I think framing is a legit skill, but I'm not sure that the stat is that accurate. I suspect that there are a lot of other variables that haven't been isolated from framing. SABRE Defensive stats have been around a lot longer and they are still lacking,imo. It may take a while.

I don't see the market getting better from the supply side; there's no one else on the market now so how could it possibly get better? Now it could improve from the demand-side in July as teams get desperate. Still I suspect then that supply will increase to meet the demand and keep the price down. The Yankee situation was different as their two relievers were far and away better than anybody else on the market

The Mariners and Dipoto are fun and interesting to watch. He is following a Williams model in terms of moves, but he's making the extra moves to build depth. And he's shooting for speed and defense, accepting some mediocrity in the starting rotation (like the Royals). The Mariners' farm is decent I suppose (I would guess around #20) but he's preserved most of it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:52 PM) I think his opinion on Glasnow's stuff would put him in the minority. So be it, but the love of Glasnow is not universal. And you do have to watch some of these prospects rankings...a lot of the services just take their information from other evaulators. Not saying it's the case with Glasnow. And I believe BA put Keller ahead of Glasnow anyway. I wouldn't mind a quantity trade for Q - 3 in the 40-70 range plus 3 more (the ascending Keller, Newman, Bell plus 3 more, e.g.)....I just don't see anyone that we can get who is really elite so I'll take some volume to minimize the risk.

Probably mentioned above, but Cameron in chat said today that Glasnow is insufficient as a Q centerpiece: stuff not that good and major control problems.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:35 PM) I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. B I agree that that is likely the case. Hahn needs to cut the best deal he can before the season and take it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 09:37 PM) But what is the case for Q being worth MORE to the Braves than to the White Sox? I'd say he is. Braves are probably looking to win in 2018 and may think of themselves as a sleeper for 2017. He's not worth much at all to the Sox, except as currency. The question is whether he's worth more to the Braves than to the Pirates, Astros or Yankees. That, I would doubt.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) Am I the only one who really really does not want a package centered around Glasnow? You are not.

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 09:37 AM) if Houston had any need for Frazier or Robertson, I'd include them with Q to get both Tucker and Bregman as the headliners. If they were willing to give up Bregman, the Astros likely would have interest in Frazier...and the Sox would be wise to throw him in to get Bregman, given the opportunity (although I would be shocked if the Astros gave him up under any scenario).

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 04:17 PM) I love what the Mariners are doing. Reminds me of old kenny williams before our pro scouting tanked, getting a lot of chances on proven mlb'ers with question marks for your own mlbers with question marks. I'm glad at least one team is operating like that because it's interesting to watch. And he is paying attention to some oft overlooked details like defense. But I think it has a high chance of crashing.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) I like Coats So do I But the Sox apparently don't. They keep an awful lot of throw-hard no-control middle relievers around in his stead.

Giolito's a prospect, and like any other prospect in his position, he has another big step to make. We'll find out. Rizzo received immediate and pretty severe media backlash against the trade. I think it's pretty clear he quickly went to Boswell in the Washington media, who wrote a cover piece for him. He reached out to others - Gammons obliged as well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 09:30 AM) I'll be honest. The odds of Leury being that 25th man on our next playoff team are about the same as discovering that extraterrestrial brain-eating worms (shout out to Mary Elizabeth Winstead's BrainDead) have infiltrated the minds of all our key front office people. Q Rodon Kopech Giolito Lopez Fulmer Hansen Dunning Adams That gives us the framework for one of the top 3-5 rotations in baseball and a dominant bullpen centered around Burdi and whatever's left when all the chips like Robertson and Jones are cashed in (and the starters sort themselves out.) If we don't get what we need for Q, Jones, Frazier and Abreu...it doesn't make any sense to dump the last two for 75 cents on the dollar. Cleveland's budget was stretched to the limit with Encarnacion...to the point where they can't afford Rajai Davis. If they lose Carlos Santana after 2017 to free agency, Encarnacion ages quickly and Brantley never is the same (see Sizemore), they'll be vulnerable more quickly than anyone imagined. Okay - so let's assume that they have the pieces for a rotation that's good to go by 2018. And Collins scores at catcher and Moncada at 2B. Now you need 3 OFs and a 3B and a bench. (L Garcia probably isn't the utility player of the future, but a IF/OF would help a lot to allow some, dare I suggest, platooning at LF/RF/DH with one-sided players who are easier to get). And some depth would be nice. Try to do that amount of holes via FA and trades is precisely what the Sox tried in 2014-mid 2016 that failed. Need to complete the rebuilding. And at some point they may need to trade Frazier at $.75 on the dollar; beats $0 on the dollar.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:10 PM) OTOH, we've seen numerous studies showing a HUGE difference in career WAR from the Top 3 picks in the draft, compared to say Picks #8-10. The odds of hitting a superstar in picks 1-3, while higher than 8-10, are still low. Sitting down there to await one player is not a sound approach to building a team.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 12:32 AM) One fourth of SoxTalk is not yet convinced a full rebuild is going on. Until Q is dealt, that will still be the case. One would think that JR, if he wasn't closely paying attention the last four years to the White Sox, would have realized with the start of the current Bulls' season that both franchises need to be completely rebooted. They hit with most of their young pitchers, they're not far away from a .500 team in 2018. They would have a potentially dominant bullpen. If Moncada and Collins are studs, they keep Frazier at a reasonable price, Abreu's got 2018 and 2019...you've suddenly got at least five average or above average players at 2b, C or DH, 3b, SS (Anderson) and 1b. You can definitely see the argument for holding onto Q at least. Corner outfield and DH bats are always more affordable...so let's say you sign Lorenzo Cain for 2018 and 2019, you have a Top Five college bat in the 2018 draft, Saladino possibly as a supersub and the proceeds of Robertson, Nate Jones and Jennings as well. That's the "if everything goes perfectly" scenario; it's the same thinking the Sox counted on in 2016 with Navarro, Jackson, Rollins and Latos, except that they were vets instead of prospects. They need to move Q. That said, they may be interesting in 2018 and certainly in 2019. Sox have a good place from which to rebuild. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 12:32 AM) With how bad Detroit, KC, and Minnesota should be...tanking again in 2018 becomes more challenging with Moncada, Collins and the young pitchers. On the other hand, Cleveland is not only good on the major league level, but they still have a top farm; the Yankees win 84 or so and have a top farm. The Astros and RedSox may have depleted the farm some, but it's still average and they are full of young talent on the major league level. I would look at a guy like Saladino to see if he can become an average 2b or 3B. That could happen with further improvement with the bat. L Garcia can play IF and OF, and would preclude keeping both a no-hit IF and OF on the roster and save space for a real bat. If he could get the bat above, say, .650 OPS, he could be the super utility player.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) The price DOESN'T increase, though. Next year's free agent SP class is fantastic, and a bunch of those guys are going to be available at the deadline. You're (all) right that we shouldn't feel the need to move Q for a weak deal, but this is STILL the best opportunity to move him in the foreseeable future, so the goal still absolutely needs to be moving him now. And I'll reiterate again that his "value" has nothing to do with what Chris Sale or other comparable pitchers got in return -- it has to do with how many suitors there are and what those suitors are willing to pay. Every time a guy moves (like Sale) the market changes, because the highest bidder just left the room. +100 Sox need to move him.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 09:54 AM) Asking for Bell is no where near asking for Betts. That's ridiculous. I agree he's not Betts and I said so; but it's the same issue. When top prospects succeed in their cup of coffee, their value to the team, especially a contender, is much higher. Trading young productive hitters opens another hole for them; which they may be able to get by with Jaso et al this year, but the Pirates are not and never will be "all in" for one given year. The Pirates have several other prospects that the Sox could use. As for the Astros, I would consider Reed among the 2nd tier. He failed in his cup of coffee, but may have been rushed a bit, and the value now is heavily discounted. I think they could do a deal with Yankees, if they would take Rutherford + secondary pieces. Is that enough?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) Not going to pretend to know a ton about their system, but the Giants system doesn't look to be a great matchup for us. A few good prospects at the top that they probably wouldn't give up and then a bunch of 23-26 year olds with limited ceilings after that. Of course Frazier/Melky would get us a pretty limited return so maybe it wouldn't be too hard to figure a trade out. That's why I think they do match up. Frazier and Melky (and Robertson) would help them, but do not warrant top prospects in return. They Giants I presume have plenty of second-tier prospects (just because they usually do). The Giants don't hype their prospects like the Red Sox and Cubs do, so there may be a fit. My preference, as I've mentioned before, would be to take a hard look at their backup catcher.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 09:28 AM) I agree with all your points except the Pirates. Due to the inclusion of Bell should have no reason saying no in acquiring a talent like Quintana because they still have Freese and Jaso at 1B. Freese and Jaso are old veterans, neither of whom is very good. Bell was very productive for the major league team last year. He was a top prospect, so he has the pedigree. They are trying to win, so why would they give that up? Asking for them to include Bell is as pointless and trade-killing as asking for Mookie Betts was last July (okay, not as silly as asking for Betts, but it's the same problem). Or dare I use another analogy - as pointless as including Trayce in a trade for Frazier, when you had no center fielder to replace him (yes, Bell is better and has the pedigree Trayce lacked; and the Pirates have some sort of backup; but it's just not a move a contender will make).

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals? Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar The Sox should accept any of those, with the Astros trade a tad iffy. The Yankees would say no. The Braves would say no. If they actually in position to contend they might say yes, but they aren't. The Astros should say yes; and I think they would had they not overpaid/traded so many prospects in the last 2 years. They still might. The Pirates would say no (due to inclusion of Bell). The Sox may need to trade Rodon at some point, but definitely not yet; let him blossom first, and plenty of time for that.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 01:58 AM) Do the Sox employ data analysts? Why the hell didnt we attempt to bolster our strength (pitching)? Did they buy into that old crap that they work well with pitchers and TWTW? The Sox' veteran acquisitions almost uniformly under-performed after acquired: Samardzija Robertson Melky (good in 2016; not good in 2015) Navarro Frazier Shields (inexcusable; I'd still like to see the scouting reports that proclaimed "all is well" after the Seattle disaster.) Only Duke and really Avila performed to expectations. And then there were the strange acquisitions: Kahnle, signing Justin Turner to a $1.5 million contract ( 6.5 ERA and And then there was Gonzales, a great get...the freebie acquisition outperforms the players they pay for. And then Flowers actually hits a little bit after he leaves town. A mix of bad luck and poor scouting/use of analytics I suppose.