GreenSox

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) Up to $8 million for Holland of all people? Ugh. I was hoping it'd be half that. That seems excessive. Did they look at his dismal peripherals? Hahn doesn't go down easy paying this money to these declining veterans - it's something he has to get out of his system before he starts building the team back up. It's no big deal this year, but it's not the way to fill holes on a winning team.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) I can't see the rangers putting a package together that wouldn't really hurt their mlb roster Their farm took a hit with their deadline deal for lucroy and jeffress. Gallo can't hit, don't even talk about profar... I don't see it working I have little interest in a Ranger ML roster package anyway - Profar can't (or at least hasn't) hit and he has only 3 years of control; Odor is good, but he has 4. Mazarra came down to earth in the 2nd half. Gallo looks to be a flop. I assumed they had a bunch of good prospects, but apparently they don't. I guess it's Astros and Rockies. I seem to recall the Rockies having a 3B prospect who was blocked by Arrenado...he may have backslid some. And they have a few top 50 guys.

No. I will not and simply cannot root for the Sox to lose on a day to day basis. The losses will happen and the Sox will get a high pick. And as per above, the Cubs got a lot in trades of mediocre pitchers...lucky really. The Draft helped them. The Astros are the team that was really fueled by the draft. They got very little in their dispersal trades, but a lot of their acquisitions were riskier low minors guys.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) You do not just trade Sale and Eaton and call it an offseason, that would run counter to performing an impactful rebuild Trading Eaton and Sale effectively punts on the next two seasons, so why keep players around any longer than they need to be? I will not trade them for less value than they are worth, but by the deadline in 2017 you will see pretty much every tradeable asset moved Agree..and hopefully Quintana is moved before the start of the season. I keep looking at AL west...The Astros Rangers and even Mariners are reasonably close and someone should push the chips in for him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) He'd never clear waivers. I think the idea is that the player would be a FA (such as when you don't offer an arb eligible player) and would sign back with the club that released him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 06:41 AM) It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players. Or even 2-3 WAR. Other than 1 more bat, that was what was lacking the last few years. The Sox just weren't solid around the diamond and on the mound. Some 2-3 War volume, instead of 1-neg 1 WAR volume, who have made the difference. Now they needed a lot of that volume. That said, they will need some all star level talent; hopefully that can be developed and attempted via some of the silly-stuff we've seen the last decade. As for Q, I think the Astros will come back to the table. The Sox negotiated down from Devers to 2 other players; similarly, they wanted Musgrove and Martes; just take one and 2 lesser players, plus Tucker (who should be a must). I also wonder about Seattle...they sure could use Q.

Isn't the idea that teams will use some loophole - sign him for a modest amount, agree to DFA him after 1 year (or whatever it's called when you let a player go early in career, and he agrees to sign back for some predetermined massive amount?

Ideally let Robertson close for 2 months, hope he's lights out and trade him in early June. Jones the closes for 2 months and trade him in late July. Maximize value for both. And to turbo maximize, let each pitch 2 innings a few times....that seems to be an appealing feature these days. I just don't see Robertson bringing back more than a couple of modest prospects right now. I'd roll the dice with him into 2017 as there is room for improvement. Another approach would be to reverse their roles. There's no question that Jones is effective but can he close? Let him show them. No question Robertson can close, but did he lose his effectiveness? That can be tested in the 7th and 8th just as well as the 9th. Jones' overall game and peripherals might have beeen maxed last year- a few more saves would help though. But no necessity to move either now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 10:06 PM) Wouldn't be a surprise to see Engel or May up there as well...especially if Tilson is reinjured or can't hit well enough to hold down the position, and/or if Melky Cabrera is finally dealt. Nothing would be totally shocking, not even Courtney Hawkins getting at-bats if he somehow manages to pull off a hot streak in the minors. Absolutely. Open audition time.

I suggested Holland a couple of weeks ago. But, honestly, he'll probably be like latos. Those K totals from last year are alarmingly non-existent. But, then again, why not.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner. Well by the grace of a sell-off, he's got another year to show the world he can hit. I've always had a lot of patience with him (although it's about dried up) because he actually walks...that suggests that there is at least kernel of pitch recognition in his skill-set. That's what this year is for anyway. the Sox will try out their ML ready prospects and see who is a keeper: Tilson, Coats, Avi, Davidson, Saladino, Sanchez and others should all get lots of playing time. Maybe there are a couple of keepers in the lot. And they'll do the same with all of those (what seem to be) AAAA relievers they loaded up on the last couple of years...a few got several outings last year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) I would love to see them dig into the Dodgers position player prospect stash, and taking on a player or two in salary relief to do it is perfectly fine with me. They just have so much talent laying around, including power bats, catchers, July 2, and Cuban players so you really can build any kind of deal you want with them. Agree The Dodgers aren't the Stewart/Larusa Diamondbacks...aren't selling prospects to save money. And the Whitesox don't like bad money.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 05:42 PM) I'd target Arroyo and Beede easily. Their system is much to be desired, so I think we can definitely get a couple of their top prospects. For Todd Frazier? doubtful For Frazier, the team doesn't need a great farm. Maybe the sox could take Trevor Brown off their hands plus a prospect; he looks to be a capable defensive catcher.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 04:53 PM) Tucker is a fine centerpiece to the deal and gives the Sox a monster corner OF prospect to lean on. Agree

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) I actually think that Frazier is an extension candidate if he wants to stay through the rebuild. Reasoning: Right now people want to underpay because he had a bad year. My belief is at some point in a new contract you will have an opportunity to trade him. His defense will likely improve making him probably in the range of a 3 WAR player. We have currently no replacement in the system. This will give them time to develop somebody. Turner got 4/64. I would assume Frazier gets under that, 4/55-60. Pretty reasonable deal. Downside: He is in his prime and will be leaving by the contact ends. Paying for 2 years where we will not be competitive. More downside Last year was the worst full season of his career; it came after a dreadful 2nd half of 2015. He's okay defensively - but I Don't see how his defense improves. On other notes - Yes, Jones should have good value; to max it, let him close; of course, Sox may get more marginal value building up Robertson until July; last year's mediocre year stares trading partners in the face. But Jones should absolutely be on the block. Here's another one - Burdi. He was drafted for quick ascendancy to the major league bullpen; well that isn't the priority any more. Put him out there, and trade him if he pitches like they think. Hahn has done a good job tearing down and trading for minor leaguers. But he and Williams have got to do a better job in their own house: drafting, development and international signings. Further, they have to improve their major league scouting (someone scouted and recommended Shields). But most of all, Hahn and Williams have to do a much better job building around this new core than they did building around the Sale/Q core.

I don't the Sox get much in the way of prospects for Robertson or Frazier; maybe use one to get a pre-arb catcher who can actually catch.

If the Sox don't like to use high draft picks on HS pitchers (don't blame them) can't see wanting Pint as the headliner. Rodgers is the guy who interests me. I don't really like any of this guy's scenarios; Maybe take scenario 4 but use Rodgers instead of Hoffman.

I was of the mind that we didn't have to trade Q, he could help the young pitchers, etc., etc. But now I think we do need to trade him. He's not going to get any better (probably not any worse either - but he could) and some teams need a starter very badly. I don't see his value increasing. Yea they could trade him at midseason...but at midseason teams want to buy an available starter for what he will do the rest of that year, with future years secondary. Much of the value of Q is what he will do for 4 years...that needs to be traded now. With the Astros, I would insist on Tucker; Tucker and one of those stud pitching prospects, plus some upside buys in the lower minors would be fine. Shields can help the young pitchers...needs to do something to earn his money; pitching to a decent 4th starter level would help as well. One of Jones or Robertson needs to be traded before the season; the other can be traded in July. If it's Robertson staying, he gets a chance to redeem for a mediocre 2016; if it's Jones, he gets an opportunity to show he can close. Given my druthers, I would prefer to move Jones now and Robertson in July; I think Robertson can improve his value more, worth the risk of further value deterioration. Abreu - trade him when you get a good offer. Frazier - we'll probably move him before the season and probably for not a great return. I would kind of prefer to hold onto him and watch.... Given that Frazier and Robertson won't, imo, bring back huge returns, we might want to look at a backstop, who's probably currently 2nd string, with a couple of years of experience, as part of the return. One who knows how to frame and play defense.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 07:06 AM) I disagree. They have numerous young relievers on the 40 man. See what these guys can do. If not, is why protect them?

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:34 AM) I agree with Cameron, I've been saying the same thing for weeks. Most likely nobody elite, but should be able to get some nice talent for sure. I would have liked that return mil got for thornberg, but thorn was making league minimum

Rasmus -keep Avi at DH Derrick Holland - if cheap. Don't need relief pitchers Will have to find a vet stopgap catcher soon esp if pitching prospects start moving up. That was another smart thing Theo did

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:08 PM) Lopez has started at every level, why convert him now? Doesn't think he has the pitches, but he has the heat. We'll find out Dunning absolutely start. It is accurate that he relieved at Fla because they had an abundance of arms, not because he couldn't start.

The Law take was that the nats foolishly messed with Giolito's mechanics; Lopez is a high end reliever; and Dunning has light mileage on his arm, has 3 pitches, and could start in the chicago by September.

Reed is falling in value; I know a lot of people here like him,but his 1/4 season really wasn't good. I might go for more volume here, assuming no Bregman. Astros have a lot of really good, but not elite, prospects, particularly position players.

Now that was a fleecing. All hail Hahn!