GreenSox

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 03:30 AM) Three top 40 prospects, including the #1 SP and #3 OF? That's the type of deal Hahn needs to take and run. Indeed he would. But I don't think Rizzo would do that for Eaton or McCutchen. Frankly I don't think Rizzo would do it for Sale. Peddling Eaton over Abreu surprises me. They must just like Abreu or maybe they think they can really can get a 6 WAR return for Eaton. I'm good with a handful of high ceiling A ballers to replace a, say, 50-100 prospect. I look at Hahn's record and the best part of the Peavy trade were the A ballers. He also dumped Beckham for a legitimate A ball prospect (whom he subsequently squandered for a AAAA reliever).

A lot of teams are going to be after Castillo. He may have gotten a favor being non-tendered.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 09:36 PM) What's new? Go to every roster and there were players that had years, add up their salary and viola! there's your list. Hindsight is 20/20. Some of those players were thought to be good gambles at that point to complement the core that we had. No - contenders do not have 7 players who are shots in the dark plus mediocre/bad starters like Garcia, Lawrie, Danks and 1/2 the bullpen (petricka et al). The only players on that list who could possibly be considered good gambles were Jackson, Albers and Avila. The rest were aging and in rapid decline, except for Turner who has never been anything except terrible. They won a good gamble on a signing: Gonzalez. Of course, they also cut Junior Guerra. If they are rebuilding, I don't really care what riff raff they sign as placeholders.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) Those guys were not placeholders. That was the Sox' poor attempt at competing with sh**y players. Which is exactly why we need to rebuild. If we rebuild - truly rebuild - Avi and Lawrie are placeholders or gone if we get better players this offseason. Lawrie has 1 year until free agency. I agree with you. Among those terrible signings were the 3 up the middle positions; and who were not on that list were bad/average (if one is generous) players like Lawrie and garcia. How was that team supposed to contend...and yet, Sox brass thought they had a contender and blamed injuries for 78 wins. That is simply not being attuned to reality. Thus while Lawrie et al SHOULD be placeholders...I am not convinced that they are.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) Even better. - Melky's 15 million and Sales 13 or so. We're going to have an Oakland-like payroll if we sell these guys. Signing placeholders for 3 or 4 mil (1 WAR is worth roughly 8 mil BTW) has no effect on any business moves. They're getting paid for what they've been. Less than 1 win players I wish I had your confidence that re-signing last year's bad starters means that they are now placeholders. The only way signing Lawrie makes any sense to me is if they are moving he or Saladino to 3rd as, indeed, placeholders. Here were last year's mere placeholders: Jimmy Rollins: $2,000,000 Austin Jackson: $5,000,000 Dioner Navarro: $4,000,000 Mat Latos: $3,000,000 Matt Albers: $2,000,000 Jacob Turner: $1,500,000 Alex Avila: $2,500,000 Total $20,000,000 Anyone who criticizes such astuteness is clueless.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) There's really not much to b**** about here unless you're looking for something to b**** about here. It's a position in which the Sox have depth that can at least replicate Lawrie. $3 million here, $4 million there. it adds up. And the Sox have squandered a lot with such signings of bad players.

This is worse than re-signing Avi. Does Rick Hahn actually think Lawrie's a good player?

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) TBH, I wanna see a Ken Giles-esque depth package in return for Jones, even if it isn't super elite guys. I'd much rather throw in D Ro or Jennings. That would be nice, but I doubt the Sox will see that. The Sox, under this front offices, just don't get those kind of packages. Eaton should be worth more than McCutchen, but I don't think either nets multiple top prospects.

Good lord. So much or the idea that the Whitesox had made improvements in their pro scouting. I want a rebuild...can't see what A Garcia has to do with that.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) Couldn't agree more. I love having Eaton on the Sox, but he is not the type of player you want in a rebuilding situation. I think his antics would really get the better of him playing for a losing team for the next few years. Eaton was more serious and more productive last year; perhaps a result of further declowning of the 25 man (Alexei, e.g.). Trad him, yes, if someone wants to pay for a 5 WAR player( which I Doubt). Sale and the vets should bring sufficient fresh talent to revitalize this org. It's a lot more to trade than the Cubs or Astros had (although premiums are often better achieved In July, esp for short term vets). Q and Eaton would be solid building blocks. Note that the Astros held back Altuve in their dispersal and rebuilding. The Sox were bad last year because Hahn has not built the Sox up the middle (affirmatively downgraded catcher and filled CF late last year). The staff and pen were each 3 deep. The org had no depth. He then refused to do much in July for 2 years running. He seems to be frozen until he can move Sale...hope he doesn't forego opportunities to move others in the meantime.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:10 PM) I'd rather have McCutcheon starting in center field for the White Sox than Tilson the next 2 seasons. If the team can get him from the Pirates for some common prospects, I would do it in a heartbeat. Starting Tilson in center over McCutcheon isn't rebuilding, it's nuts in my opinion. What is nuts is this team trading for McCutchen. Rick Hahn had his chances overpaying for proven veterans and he failed....miserably.....twice. Rick Hahn needs to leave fantasy land, return to earth and do his job. And one would hope, after moving Sale and perhaps some of the proven veterans on this team that the Sox would wind up with a CF a mite better than Tilson anyway.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:50 PM) Surely the White Sox will continue to be defined as a large-market team while Detroit and St. Louis, not to mention the rest of the AL Central, continues to be considered small market. Sox never took advantage of that international cap to sneak one or two years of huge Latin American classes into the system. As someone else said, rich and forward-thinking teams got richer and richer, everyone else got left behind at the starting line. This won't change much for the Sox. Nothing in it should instigate the Sox to give any more than their usual half-hearted effort on the international front; the forward-thinkers are now limited, so the Sox won't be hurt as badly by their international lethargy.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:24 PM) Jennings with a 2.08 ERA and a 194 ERA+ in 2016. Might be a good time to sell high. They should if they can, but I doubt they can. His peripherals weren't very good, and most GMs don't ignore those.

Jones is the only Sox reliever with real trade value; D Rob would have some, but for the contract. Putman is okay - The Sox like Petricka, but his numbers are terrible.

Not trading with the Cubs is silly but I don't see why Hahn had to say anything. And do the Cubs have the prospects the Sox want anyway? They've hyped Schwarber to the gills, and even if the hype were legit, he's still a DH. they've also hyped Soler ...but no one's buying that one. What is the deal the Sox could get from the Cubs that it couldn't turn down?

Thanks My mistake. I can see the nontenders on those 2.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 10m10 minutes ago Garcia, Lawrie among White Sox non-tender possibilities http://atmlb.com/2gm8jpM via @mlb What does L Garcia make? Seems like a useful utility guy, esp as we've spent over $2 mil per head on Bonificio, Beckham, etc.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:10 AM) I would prefer to explore someone like Mike Zunino, who although he can't seem to hit over .200, has huge power, but most importantly, plays really good defense and is a good pitch framer. Swihart has rated below average so far in his short career. Might give the Mariner's a chance to stretch Edwin Diaz back out to starting like he was prior to June of 2016 (now that they moved Walker), or maybe see if Diaz can be a 2-inning Andrew Miller type guy before Robertson comes in to close. Who the hell knows, but them trading Walker and Marte for Segura suggests they might be trying to win now. (Although Mariners did decline option on Iannetta, so they will be without a catcher) Mariners are trying to win now. Dumping Ianetta is more evidence that they are trying to win than they aren't.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) I'm OK with the White Sox blackballing the Cubs when it comes to trading for one simple reason, I have zero faith that Hahn/Kenny can win a deal with Theo on the other end. Zero. I don't have faith that Williams and Hahn can win a deal from any GM except maybe Jockety. But they should be able to get a good return that may turn out to be a great return. Even if you don't want to deal with the Cubs, just be polite and take their calls...you don't need to affirmatively tell them that. I would avoid the Nats as well; they aren't giving up Turner, they don't have that many prospects, so there is very little room for error. Rizzo would probably make mincemeat out of Hahn.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) Pretty straight forward question: if the Sox end up trading Sale, do you think the haul and free agent additions could lead them to having a better team? I think it'll be hard to replace Sale's value, but I could definitely see a situation where the Sox plug 1-2 holes with studs, get trade pieces to fill other holes, then maybe fill in free agency. They still keep most of their core with extra control (Q, Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Jones, etc.) and add young talent to supplement that core while not fully committing to blowing the entirety of this core up. With the way this offseason has developed so far, I could see this being the move of the front office. They could be better next season just with the haul. Forget any serious FA acquisitions right now.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 11:31 PM) Which players are you okay with cutting and getting no value on? Caufield detailed that well. And not all of those guys are cinches to be grabbed. And what's the deal with Avi? Are they really sticking with him through arb? Regardless, though, I don't see a ton of pressure on the 40 man. Realistically, for Sale you are looking at 2 elite prospects 2 others in the top 60 or so, and then some low minors guys. Maybe 3 of those will need to be on the 40 man. They may eventually trade Quintana and Eaton, but they don't seem that inclined and there's no reason to completely flood the market with our young studs. (I would move Eaton if some team will pay as if he's a 5-6 WAR player; otherwise, hang tight). I can't get a read on what they will do with Abreu - if he goes, yes that may require a spot on the 40 man. So now you're down to Frazier, Melky, D Rob, Nate Jones. The better deal for those guys very well be high ceiling low minor guys. Jones could bring a top prospect, who could still be a year or 2 away. If they want ML ready guys, D Rob would bring someone like Tilson...in this situation, a low minor prospect with a lot more upside is a better way to go.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) I agree. But if you traded everyone with value this offseason per se (Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Robertson, Jones, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Jennings - 10 players) you're looking at getting around 20-25 players in return. There's maybe 5 or 6 guys on our 40-man I'd be okay ditching without either seeing more of them or getting literally nothing in return for them, on a supposed rebuilding team. A lot of the guys would be low minor players. There are a bunch on the 40 man that could be cut and wouldn't be missed.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) So far with still a limited sample size, Saladino has been league average at 3B but above average at 2nd. And his bat improved last year. If he can make better contact and walk a little more, he could be really useful and play a lot. He hit about as well as Lawrie did last year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 07:58 AM) He offered Samrdzija $85 million. Perhaps not ace money in today's environment, but more than Anything Hahn may have offered. And he wasn't supposed to be an ace on the White Sox, they already had one, so your point appears way off. He signed for $90 million with the Giants, so Theo was pretty close, closer than Hahn. http://www.sbnation.com/2014/6/18/5822630/...fer-rumors-cubs Epstein offered Samardzija about 1/2 of what he offered Lester. If he wasn't supposed to be a top of the rotation starter (obviously behind Sale, but still a front end guy), why did they trade for 1 year of his services? The Giants and Cubs accurately saw him as a middle guy (and to be fair, that may be generous). Samardzija was doing the best pitching of his career when Theo moved him....he took advantage and sold high. Hahn?

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 06:07 AM) Don't forget Renteria, Julio Lugo, Varitek 2nd contract, Jenks, and Matt Clement. If there is a flaw to Epstein's game plan it is free agency. Also include Heyward and Edwin Jackson. Epstein always surrounds himself with an incredible support staff. His bread and butter is the draft, player development, and transactions trough trades and waiver pick ups. Yes he has a nice free agent pick up here and there such Zobrist, Mueller, Lester, and Beltre. But probably has had more misses with his long term contracts. I'll probably get bashed for this, but it's true dipping in free agency has been a hiccup to his game. He's been fortunate to work with orgs that can absorb some spending miscues and to allow him to hire a talented and deep staff. And they don't win the WS without Lester and Zobrist. And he's also been smart as to who to let go to free agency....Samardzija. He correctly evaluated him as not an ace. The dichotomy between Epstein and Hahn re Samardzija really encapsulates the difference between the two front offices. Epstein has also been impeccable in his trades and evaluation of his own players. A strong staff helps. Hahn could use one of those.