GreenSox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:49 PM) The Los Angeles Dodgers can also throw many around like no other team. While we all fret about the $20 million the Sox have to pay Shields the next 2 years, they can piss that away and no one thinks twice. It may be the dumbest comparison ever. Take away Kershaws $30 million and they still have a significantly higher payroll than the White Sox. And that payroll is not the main reason they withstand injuries. They have organizational depth. Heck, it was they who passed on Frazier,preferring Sox prospects. Petricka and Putnam are average at best relievers; Lawrie is avg or below at 2b; same with Avilia and Jackson. The Sox didn't exactly lose high talent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) Really, you think the Sox should and could be be like the Dodgers? That may be the craziest thought ever. Good point. Well this FO, indeed it is crazy to think there could be the least bit of farm depth or decent talent sitting in AAA.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) Dodgers. Preaching to the choir. But that will be a heavy, heavy excuse used by the FO.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) This is embarrassing Injuries.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) But isn't that another reason for signing mid tier talent like Fister or Volquez to short term deals? I mean it's not going to break the bank and if they produce you can dump them at the deadline for young talent if you are out of the race. It's not like signing them will cost a draft pick either. If they don't produce then you aren't stuck long term with a bad contract. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with those types of signings. They didn't sign Frazier - they traded 3 young players for Frazier. That's the problem. And for what end? They aren't contending, so why dump the young guys? Volquez, fine. I actually think Hahn might be able to build a team if he would acquire young players. The few snippets of him using that approach have been reasonably successful. But the model of building through vets that other teams want to trade, plus modest FAs has a very little chance of working even if well-executed. And Hahn's execution of what is a bad plan has been poor. Heck look at the Tigers...they get their best pitcher (and AL ERA leader) via a July trade of a veteran. Hahn has basically sat-out the July trading period, which heavily favors sellers. How do you not get rid of Robertson and Melky? It's mind-boggling.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. There's nothing wrong with signing the veteran IF you have the strong young core. But that's the problem...the Sox have a very thin core. The Sox core is 4 or 5 players with no depth. The Cubs had twice that, with depth. The Cubs traded their veterans to build their team. Look no further than how the teams approached Samardzija: the Cubs get their franchise shortstop, and then Rick Hahn, off of 73 wins, adds 1 year of Samardziaj for 4 young players. That trade alone showed the difference between a quality front office and a front office that doesn't know how to build a team. The have added veterans 2 years in a row to "go for it", and not only didn't make the playoffs, haven't come close to .500. Enough is enough.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 08:13 PM) We went and acquired James Shields. Our front office sought out the Padres and said "We need THAT guy!" Yep And after allowing 10 runs in Safeco. Incredible, isn't it.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 05:39 PM) Lawrie got hurt after posting down numbers. He has no trade value. You have to play him next year and hope his value increases before the trade deadline. . Lawrie posted the numbers he always posts. Those numbers appealed to the astute team-builder Rick Hahn, but I doubt they appeal to many other GMs.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 07:47 PM) Has a GM ever been fired while a game was going on? He's the worst since at least Ed Short in the 1960s, and may be worse than him (not that familiar with Short's work). Shields and Turner. quite the eye for talent.

Hansen certainly looks extremely promising. He's had a long year, time for rest and more improvement and progress in 2017.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 21, 2016 -> 09:41 PM) I think talent evaluation is as important and sometimes even more important than Draft position. We have had some first round dogs, and I hate to call Fulmer one, but he might become another bust. You go into full tank mode to get a player like that? This FO can't properly evaluate even veteran talent. I think they, at least Hahn, is okay with the young guys. But he/they want veterans and the evaluation of vets is hideous. Look at Hahn trading for Shields. Look at the Peavy trade: Williams insisted on Avi; Hahn and his Scouts found the A ball players. The A ball guys were the better part of the trade.

Nothing that can't be fixed with 2 free agents and a good Ouija board

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 07:41 AM) http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al/chicag...-sale-quintana/ Alright, if that's the way you want to go Jerry, no more p****footing. No half measures. You either spend like a boss or tear it down at this point JR along with his front office are completely delusional. You can't contend just because you want to. This team's record is accurate. You can't improve 10-15 games with more FAs and more poorly conceived Hahn trades for "proven" short term veterans. The FO approach to team building is obsolete. Build a core, Hahn. That, you're good at; trading for veterans, not so much.

A lot of that blown save stuff is due to the O not helping much. If the pen gives up a couple of runs over 4 or 5 innings, the save is blown; well it wouldn't have been blown with some help from the offense. Statistically, they are a bit below average, which is probably about the reality of the talent level in the pen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) It does in the fact that this team got two days worth of negotiations in the books as a head start for the offseason. It could also be potential competition. if the Dodgers are basically giving Puig away, that's one thing. But there's no reason on this green earth for the Sox to get in some bidding war for Puig. The Sox need a major makeover. That really doesn't include trading real talent on a crapshoot like Puig. The last two years the most prominent players who were obviously made available by their teams were grabbed by Rick Hahn......and he ended up the sucker. And add Shields; another player the team was overtly trying to dump, to the HAhn ledger. This winter, Puig will be front and center. Stop doing the obvious and walking into traps, Rick. Put some creativity and finesse into your game. And most of all, face reality about this team.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 05:14 PM) I'd really like to see Coats get a legit look. Given the lack of talent in our organization, we definitely need to see if there's any chance Jason is part of the long-term puzzle. Doubtful, but better than giving Shuck & Avi more at-bats. Me too. Coats was hitting better when they sent him down. Haven't seen Leury in 2 years...see if he can be a utility player for next year. Not sure any real prospects need to come up except maybe Fulmer for a couple of starts. Surprised that these 2 aces in the front office couldn't move out any more of the riff raff in August. (well not really surprised)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 05:58 PM) Ask me after September. They have been trying to replace the guy for a year now, and every time they think they do, something else happens and he works back into the line up. I know they are working on the whole "launch angle" thing, and there is always a small chance that yields results, but the odds have to be pretty small. Why continue to play him. It's call up season so play coats or a few other guys. I know Hahn and Williams aren't really interested in this players but maybe one will have a good September and Hahn can throw him in the package for the inevitable trade for a veteran.

the rotation is 6th, the pen is 8th. Overall rotation plus pen = 5th. The pen is really worth less than the stats suggest because it just lacks any stopper beyond 1 or 2 guys; a If all they needed was a couple of more bullpen studs, I could see going for it next year. But then you get to the offense....and this front office has been utterly incapable of fixing that for years. Proven veterans, decliners, heroes...they've tried everything, except what has a chance of working.

Bring up Fulmer. Expand rotation to 6. Or put Shields in pen- see if he can reinvent himself there since Sox are stuck with him. Take it easy on Sale and Q and Jones.

Speaking of Avi, give Coats his at bats in September.

QUOTE (Insp @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) Actually, its Hahn who needs to go the most since he's the reason why Albers is still on the team. Yep. Ventura didn't sign him. He didn't sign Jacob Turner either (who in the world made that decision? He was terrible last year and the Sox paid him $1.5 million). When will Hahn and Williams be made to answer?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) April/March .697 OPS May .955 OPS June .700 OPS July .496 OPS Aug MIA And lets not pretend you werent like he was a guaranteed +.800 OPS guy what your point. I said .706 he was Sent down for performance not personality. Looks like you're confirming my assertion. I think I've been pretty consistent in saying that Sox should trade for these guys before they become proven because you get them at a much lower price. I credited the Sox with the Eaton in that regard and wonder why they make so few of those trades despite the FO high success rate with them. Trading for proven young players is to do something like the Swisher trade, which was another Kenny Williams clown show both in acquisition and dispersal. You have to overpay. This may be an opportunity to get somebody on the cheap and if it is on the cheap I'm all for it.

QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 09:24 PM) jones is okay.. not great. When he is your 2nd best reliever... you are going to lose some games late. Using Jones 3 days in a row is absolutely pointless. Jones as 2nd to best reliever is fine; the Sox just need 3 Jones' and the one Jones doesn't need to pitch more than a few times a week now that the Sox, dare I say it Hahn and Ventura, are out of it and have been for months.

Ventura, Williams, Hahn and Cooper live in la la land. They are not grounded on planet earth. These dim bulbs think the Sox are in the race and run the org/team as such.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 11:57 PM) He's a positive WAR player the past two seasons. He was worth what Trayce was in 2015 and more than Trayce this year. Or is Trayce someone that you don't want on an MLB roster? Per this board, Trayce is useless...4th outfielder. What, pray tell, is your objection to only trading at a steep discount? Would would you suggest paying for him? Top dollar? Top 100 prospects? Go back and look at threads from 2 years ago...you'll see plenty of suggestions of Q plus for him. .706 OPS this year.