GreenSox

Worth a risk I suppose if at steep discount. Big if.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:43 PM) He wasn't particularly impressive this year. Indeed. Nice knowing you, AJ

QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) I guess you missed the part where Sale was striking out every thing that moved in the last 3 innings. Please itemize what was gained for the Chicago White Sox in pitches 100-120. And yes, of course Sale CAN do it. But there is no point in doing it. And most DON"T do it every 5th or 6th day.

ONly 120 pitches for Sale in this critical August series. Is anyone in the dugout or front office on planet earth?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Nothing? Tell me what you know about Turner. He may be an improving young player like Saladino He's 25 and just out of A ball and rule 5 eligible. Whiffed again... How are those proven veterans working out?

We got nothing in trade; but we cleared room on the roster for other players to play, so that's something.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Of the 2 KW-esque trades, its not like they destroyed the White Sox. You do have to give up something to get something, But the Sox got nothing. That's the big problem. Whoever scouted Frazier and Samardzija as elite talents, and Shields as a capable mid rotation guy simply cannot evaluate talent and do not belong anywhere near a professional baseball team. It's one thing to say prospects didn't work out - most don't - but when the "proven veterans" especially the ones that are worshiped as elite, are consistently average or below, there is a major problem. Were these veterans even seriously scouted? Did anyone actually look at their stats? And secondarily, indeed, I don't believe that the Sox FO is particularly capable in negotiating trades. On paper, they usually overpay. When the Dodgers preferred the 3 Sox prospects to Frazier, that should have sent a clear signal to the Sox* (if they had any self-awareness) that he was on the wrong side of this transaction. *Rabbitt is probably right Williams is making all of these inane moves, but, whoever is doing it, is just inept.

In September, Shields shouldn't be alone in losing his spot. I see they sent Coats down for Avi...not sure what they point there is really.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 10:06 PM) 8 years? What are you talking about? Most of those years had badass rosters that looked competitve on paper. "Hey Paulie, screw your prime and your last good years, we're going to get some prospects. Piss off you old goateed-sometimes fool." GMAB They should have gotten some prospects; maybe some would have developed into good players; certainly couldn't be worse than the bad veterans. Williams and Hahn think 1-2 WAR veterans are special... Teams don't win by acquiring 30 year olds as the core of the team. It isn't just bad luck that Frazier stinks...he had red flags all around him....Hahn chose to ignore them. Shields was a walking red flag - ignored. Samardzija was a decent pitcher who had a great year..the great year was assumed to be his new norm.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Aug 20, 2016 -> 05:59 AM) both need to be fired. And an outside guy is needed to clean house. This

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) Leury kind of hearkens back to those halycon days when Micah, Carlos Sanchez and Saladino were seen as the future 2b. Saladino MIGHT still be a regular at some point, but the problem was you needed to combine all three of those guys into one to get a truly useful starting player at the big league level. Leury can also play OF. he actually could be a decent utility player if he can hit just a little (and he's hit better this year, last I checked). Saladino might be regular - I agree with that characterization.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 10:44 PM) Why we didn't trade Shields in a huge seller's market when he had some value after a good run is beyond me First, I seriously doubt that anyone wanted Shields. Even if they did, Hahn, a particularly poor talent evaluator, likely thought that Shields really was fixed (a cursory review of his peripherals showed that he wasn't). Plus, Williams and Hahn aren't ones to understand their own failures, so I doubt that they were convinced that the Sox weren't contenders. They certainly should have moved D Rob and Melky. But that would have required some firm footing in the real world...a world in which Hahn and Williams do not reside.

yes, I prefer a manager with Ventura's personality than Guillen's. Personality isn't the reason for Ventura's limitations as a manager, or was Guillen's personality the real problem with him as manager. And Ventura isn't the main reason why this organization, top to bottom, is bottom of the barrel.

The Sox have officially hit bottom. That's not to say that the bottom won't continue to sink.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 08:54 PM) Except for Erik Johnson, yeah. Hahn went into desperation mode because of the early hot start. Danks would probably be putting up the same numbers and quietly exiting if they went out 10-23, or even retired before the end of the season. The bloom of the good start was hanging on the rose by half a thorn at the time Rick Hahn made the Shields trade. He was, as usual, oblivious to reality.

I remember when Hahn was waxing nonsense to sound intelligent about the Shields trade: he said he recognized that there were certain systematic risks involved.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) Stewart/LaRussa...we haven't stumbled to that level (yet) with Miller trade and signing Greinke too late in his career. Preller is now extremely well-supported in SD for his course correction. Plus, Preller went up against Rick Hahn mano a mano, and Hahn was obliterated in the trade. A complete mismatch, like Hahn is against most GMs. And I would be shocked if the farm is rated any higher than #25 in December.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) He looked good in the first inning Perfect in fact, as Scott Merkin tweeted.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) One thing I'm finding interesting - every one that the White Sox have pushed aggressively up to the big leagues, to the point where I was wondering "why are they doing this" over the past few years was traded that offseason. Semien, Johnson, Montas, Bassitt, Thompson, going back farther even Santiago. Fulmer's now the next guy on that list. And if they're going to do another "all-in" trade this offseason, I'm not sure who else they have as trade ammunition. Let's see Samardzija and Frazier were the "all in" acquisitions. And some James Shields for lagniappe. Todd Frazier OPS: .747 Marcuse Semien OPS: .746 Mighty fine talent evaluation there, Rick. After 8 years of trying short cuts with "elite veterans" and failing miserably, one would think Williams and Hahn would have learned something.

I just saw that Ventura pinch hit Navarro...good gracious. The veteran thing again, whitesox?

QUOTE (Nokona @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 09:37 PM) Addison Reed and Sergio Santos were both young stud relievers who the Sox were willing to move... But neither brought even 1/4 of Giles' return. Williams just gave Santos to the Jays. Reed was an honest trade (that didn't work out) but it was for one prospect, not a boatload like Giles brought. But that's a good example...Burdi turns into Reed - that's a reasonable goal for a reliever...all he brings is another good not great prospect in trade. i.e. no surplus value. Burdi was drafted with this year's pen in mind. That demonstrates how limited the organizational thinking is; and how they still live in la la land about the major league team they built: this Front Office apparently doesn't know what constitutes a contending baseball team.

I take it all back. He's back to playing for 1 run, knowing Beck is coming in. Indicates limited understanding and ability. Sadly, though, there are greater problems. And on edit, after Ventura makes the affirmative decision to play for one run in the 7th, the Sox, unsurprisingly, lose by 1 run.

I think Ventura is improving as a manager, and his strategic mistakes are declining (that nutty bunt of the 2nd batter of the game with Shields on the mound notwithstanding). Yea people can yak about the pen and Albers, but is there a point in wearing out Nate Jones? His teams the last 3 seasons haven't really tanked and and have played to their talent level. I don't think he'll be back and might be used as a convenient excuse for the mistakes of the front office. Steverson, too, who I think has done some decent work with some of the young players of limited ability.

In terms of long term impact and development, im more excited about those walks from Anderson than if they were hits. He has gotten a lot of 3 ball counts during his time, but showing the ability to lay off and take ball 4 portends well....gotta throw him a strike to get him out.

Nice work by the bullpen tonight...kept the team in striking distance. They did a good job last night as well. I'm impressed with Turner...he may have been the most abysmal starting pitcher I've ever seen, but he is respectable in the pen.