GreenSox

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 02:30 AM) P Carson Fulmer, P Spencer Adams, OF Jameson Fisher, P Jordan Stephens, 1B Corey Zangari to the Arizona Diamondbacks for CF A.J. Pollock What? throw away 3 young pitchers. Who needs them when the Sox have James Shields and Petricka coming back! More of the same. If it fails year after year, keep doing it.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 31, 2016 -> 11:31 PM) They were playing to win. 3B sucked in 2015 and we traded fringe players for an all-star who hits 30+ bombs and plays pretty good defense. Were you against the trade from the beginning? Tons of people loved this trade and thought it improved our team quite a bit since we needed power. Yes I was against the trade from the beginning; he had an awful 2nd half of 2015 and it was 2 years of control and we traded a young player at a position for which we had zero in the way of replacement. I didn't see the players we traded as fringe and still don't. But I'm not going to like any of this type of trades in the current condition of this org. The Sox aren't close to a playoff team (imo), so now is not the time to acquire these veterans.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) The Frazier deal defines the big picture plan for the White Sox. They constantly believe they are one-two big name players away from competing for the wild card, and that failing to compete for the wild card every year is a mistake, so they should sell out whatever they can to get a big name player at a position of weakness. Put everything on the line and put as many big names on your big league squad as possible regardless of what it does to your organization. That's the Samardzija deal, that's the Frazier deal, that's the free agent signings of the last couple years, that sums up this team going as far back as bringing in Dunn and Rios, with the notable exception of 2014. Someone needs to tell Hahn that "Big name" doesn't equate to "big production" (if he used any sort of statistical analysis, he could find that out for himself beforehand). Hahn's "little name" acquisition, Eaton, has out performed each of his "big names"...and yet Hahn is disinterested in making Eaton-type trades, despite the fact that he outperformed the names at a much lower cost.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 31, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) If the White Sox offered Trayce, Micah, and Frankie in a package this offseason, they would get nothing close to Todd Frazier. a)Debatable; I suggest it's closer to the Sox would get nothing close to Trayce, Micah and Frankie were they to trade Frazier now. b) Context. What in the world are the Sox doing trading 3 young players or 2 years of a veteran when they had a 76 win team (that, per pythag, wasn't that good). Not as idiotic as the Samardzija trade (especially as Donaldson was acquired for a similar price) but pretty silly. c)Frazier wasn't that great this year, which is par for the course for Rick Hahn veteran acquisitions. Hahn' talent evaluation skills are, shall we say, lacking. d)I expect more of the same this offseason from Rick Hahn, unfortunately.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 29, 2016 -> 09:15 AM) Should have been able to? We did sell high on him. In no sense was Trayce sold high. The trade would have been defensible IF the Sox were in a position to win AND they didn't have a gaping hole at CF and pitching depth, particularly in the pen (of course those weaknesses, exacerbated by the trade, are a large reason why the Sox weren't in a position to win). A savvy trade of Sale plus another year of quality development by the young pitchers, and the Sox could be ready in 2018. But the usual out of Hahn will yield the usual results.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 29, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) That's all the best team in baseball by far has to do. Where do you come up with this stuff? They had the best record in baseball, by far...largely achieved by mercilessly pounding the bad teams. They were just a few over .500 against teams with winning records. They have consistently struggled against good pitching in the post-season, both this year and last. There's more to winning than beating the Reds and Brewers.

Good move. The 40 man has been littered with a lot worse than him over the last few years. One of these claims will pay off. Lord knows they're due.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 12:19 PM) It fascinates me that the Cubs can spend $184 million on a bum like Heyward and not miss a beat while the Sox only owe Shields approximately 1/7th of that and are struggling big time with payroll. One team trades 1.5 years for Samardzija for their SS of the next decade. Another team, coming off of 72 wins, then trades (a SS with 27 homers) for 1 year of Samardzija. And about 5 more contrasting moves like that, plus a series of useless signings explains some things.

Pass

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Oct 25, 2016 -> 10:31 PM) I don't think Sanchez is the right route to go. He had a ridiculous rookie year here and his value will be so inflated that trading for Sanchez would almost certainly backfire compared to other deals. Indeed. He was a good prospect, never elite. He has a great few months, and his value is now of an elite+ That should also have held for Trayce, who was a fair prospect with a great 2 months in MLB...should have been able to sell him of the value of a very good prospect...he wasn't. Buying high is not the way to approach things. Similarly , July was the time to grab Benintendi.

QUOTE (Carpe Diem @ Oct 24, 2016 -> 12:39 AM) I don't fault management for giving it a run with this core, but after 2+ years I've seen enough to know this team is 4-5 impact players away from even contending for the division. I'm going to sound repetitive, but this issue I'm about to bring up CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH. The franchise's future is at stake. The White Sox have a once in a generation opportunity to create one of the best farm systems EVER ASSEMBLED if they blow this thing up leaving only Carlos Rodon and Tim Anderson in its wake. I'm talking potentially having anywhere from 16-20 of the top 100 prospects in all of baseball if you factor in Fulmer Collins, Burdi, Hansen. That is unprecedented a team can make over their entire farm system/trajectory of their franchise in one house cleaning session. If the White Sox trick themselves into thinking Chris Sale will somehow magically learn to control his emotions and not get hit hard bu the AL central I'm going to REVOLT in a way that will resemble Braveheart. Obama or Mark Cuban for owner signs will be EVERYWHERE. Stay tuned. You make a strong case, Carpe. But I doubt it happens...I think they will trade Sale, but at least 1/2 his value will come from "Proven veterans". Watch for McCutchen, the type of player Williams and Hahn drool over

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 03:40 PM) Your points are good ones but again, do you trust this front office who put the franchise in this position in the first place to dig them out of it? And by front office I also include the people in charge of minor league talent / development and major league scouting. From what I've seen, Hahn isn't much above average at anything re evaluating personnel (he's a contracts guy, and pretty good at it). BUT, he seems at least competent (if not a little better than competent) when it comes to drafting, and dispersing veterans for young players. He has been utterly incompetent in his pursuit of veterans...they under-perform and he is a poor negotiator. He claimed (with a straight face) that Shields' decline was unforeseen and unprecedented. Hahn has "gone for it" two years in a row and the results have been embarrassing (for a team that is "going for it"). Thus, given that he is the GM, I think the Sox have a better chance of amassing talent and ultimately winning if he sheds these vets for young players versus trading young players for more veterans.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 12:41 AM) As far as the Sox "blowing it up" that is what the Cub fans want to see happen. It isn't a legit way to build a team any more, because there are too many bad teams vying for the top Draft choices. Therefore, there is no guarantee that a bad team will net a star like kris Bryant in the following year;'s Draft. What Epstein did involved a lot of very fortunate circumstances, some very good judgment ,a virtually unlimited budget, and a whole lot of luck. He is also not operating under a salary cap. I'm pulling for the Indians/. You don't blow it up to get the #1 pick; as you said, there's no guarantee of that; nor is there any guarantee that Bryant will be just waiting for you. you blow it up (or trade veterans) to get good young players into your system. That was the key to Theo's rebuilding of the Cubs, really moreso than the drafting. Major gains can be made especially in July. And yet Rick Hahn repeatedly insists on doing the OPPOSITE of what successful teams that are trying to build do. Instead of dealing away the veterans, he amasses them. And not just any veteran....Hahn is first in line to pay top price for the veteran that the other team is overtly trying to dump. And I doubt it will be any different this offseason.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 21, 2016 -> 09:43 PM) That's why I don't get some of the fans' giddiness to trade Sale or Q. The problems are in scouting and development. That's true - but it's also true that the status quo won't get the Sox anywhere. I'll risk Hahn trading Sale for prospects or young players...he came up with Eaton so there is some history of competence. But my fear is that he trades Sale primarily for a veteran...and Hahn has a history of taking that bait when some team dabbles an ex all star in front of his nose.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) They just fired their president a week or so ago Thanks. Preller and Williams would be an interesting dynamic.

What opening do the Padres have? I'm not sure who the Pres is or if they have one.

I think the Rangers are bogus and the Tigers will continue to slide back. Royals will win 85ish. But the Angels could get a lot better, the Yankees will be decent and the Astros may have take a small step back to take a leap forward if they can develop pitching(they foolishly traded young pitching last offseason). Seattle will be solid. It's easy to concoct a lineup where the Sox look like a contender. And Hahn can trade the good prospects we have for proven veterans. But I just don't see the defense or the pitching depth to really contend. And the usual usual Hahn moves for players that other teams are openly trying to dump just won't get it done. I'm not sure that Hahn is capable of much else. But if he is, a trade of Sale could make this a better ballclub. Get a young CF and 3B or catcher in here and give the young pitching a year to pull together and see what happens.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) Agreed and considering the troubles the White Sox have had in finding an average DH the last few years he is probably more valuable to us than any other team in that respect too. Agree

Teams who had that core and a thin farm like the Sox do would be reubuilding or at least taking a step back actually, they would have worked on things like young pitching depth and adding to the core 2 years ago). what they wouldn't do is start trading for vets on 1-2 year contracts, Hahn-style. Lack of spending "big money" is a canard...an excuse. Capable front offices would do a lot more with this core than Williams and Hahn have. Keep the prospects (the Sox do have prospects to trade for some Hahn-heroes; it would just wipe out the farm), trade Sale, fix the defense and get some pitching depth in here.

The Dodgers have a massive front office infrastructure...they could afford to take a risk on Kapler. Getz may be fine; but it just looks like another opening without a thorough search. Kapler had been writing about analytics for a long time; I wonder if Getz knows analytics or is interested in it (pretty obvious that Hahn, despite his impressive degrees, knows very little about analytics; or at least he doesn't use it).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) The defense comment is accurate. However, 2015 Melky (who, by the way, was still decent) also was extremely unlucky. This year, his luck balanced out and his numbers got better. My point is, it isn't an issue of ability. edit- he had a .297 2015 BABIP despite a higher hard contact % than he had this year. He's a complementemry hitter. 3-5 on a good team as said above. And yes the kind of hitter that the Sox FO would get goo goo over and act like they had acquired the elite (Frazier and Swisher were similar levels of hitter)- and partially because top hitters aren't traded very often. Contending front offices will see him for what he is- good hitter with 1 yr in a deal with bouts of inconsistency. Sure you can trade him- but not for much and you could get more in July desperation period. I think they'll read Sale but I don't think they'll rebuild.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) I don't think it is but I definitely thinks this unfair to criticize a move and it's process, when you don't know the happenings behind the scenes. If you think this is a bad move, please name me someone who you would like instead. Two years of experience for this job is worthy of scrutiny.

QUOTE (daggins @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) Like, who is the strong leadership figure Getz is going to get his guidance from early on when he is still green? Is it Kenny Williams? Don Cooper? Frickin' Buddy Bell?? Rick Hahn Seems like a Hahn guy. Fellow Michigan man. They let him switch out the top scout, so maybe this too.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) Retired from playing after 2014 season. He then joined the Royals front office as some sort of assistant around the end of 2014. So, at max, he has 2 years' experience in player development. And now he's going to be the Director. yea, that seems real light on experience. I wonder if he's one of those guys like McCarthy or Kappler who started looking at analytics while still playing; that might help.

It doesn't seem overly insider to me. But what exactly are his qualifications?