GreenSox

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 05:12 PM) Between the different CBAs and the different slotting and all the other stuff that factors into the draft, it's so dumb to evaluate the draft like, "Well historically this picks amounts to this." "The best player at #26 pick over the last ten years is player X!" "Well player Y went 32!" It's nowhere near pure in a meritocratic sense. It's a crap shoot. The relief market is very high right now and the Sox haven't even decided what they're going to do with Burdi yet. At the very least, the Sox got the safest player in the draft at #26. Unless the guy blows out his shoulder in the first year after he was drafted he's going to contribute in the MLB and fast. Maybe a couple guys you can say that about each year. The Phillies just got Vince Velasquez, Thomas Eshelman, Brett Oberholtzer and Derek Fisher for Ken Giles after he was great for 100 innings. That's #2-3 starter, a top 150ish prospect, a decent NL arm and a good starting LF on the cusp of the MLB. Burdi probably won't have the ridiculous SSS numbers Giles had, but the scouts will like him more than they did Giles. That deal is out there, but you don't have to do that well in a trade to get a great return on 1 late first round draft pick. The Sox are flush with options on Burdi. -Trade Robertson and Burdi becomes set up. -Trade Jones and Burdi becomes set up. -Trade Burdi in a package for a stud. -Keep Burdi in the bullpen that has been woefully bad for years. -Make Burdi a starter in the minors while they rebuild. There's not many guys that can affect your immediate future at pick #26. The Sox got the bat that will appear in the MLB first in this class, they got the arm that arm that will appear in the MLB first from this class, and they turned around and diversified their risk with a crapshoot in Alec Hansen. He's excelling beyond their highest hopes. You can b**** about the Sox in almost any facet of the organization but when it comes to Burdi, this draft class and their track record on pitching, back off. The early returns and the track record are there. Let things fail before you come at the Sox with pitchforks. This is a rosy scenario and I admit that with a capable, proactive front office, some of these things could happen. But if relievers have that value why don't other teams draft relievers high, or at least put some of their top pitching prospects in the pen and rush them up? The best scenario is: 1)Burdi pitches like Giles, nails down a closer role, so trade him for a haul. That would be the move to make, but....when have you EVER seen this front office make a sell-high trade like that? That kind of move is simply not in the Hahn playbook. Plus it takes some luck on both teams willing to give up that much for a reliever and for Burdi to be that good. As for replacing Jones and then trading Jones, Jones won't bring back the equivalent of a #26 pick, so that would suggest that Burdi does not have #26 value. Re trading D Rob, the time to do that was July, and the front office refused to make a serious move. Oh sure, they can sell him low at some point (and probably will because that's what they do with veterans). I admit that if the front office showed the least bit of competence in putting together a major league roster, I would just express my philosophical disagreement in using high picks for relief pitchers and move on. But these guys have been going for it and can't win more than 76 (not to mention 2 playoff teams in 16 years). Samardizja (instead of Donaldson), Frazier and Shields (with major red flags on the latter 2). Yikes! Maybe the downstream org. has improved. If so, we should see it in the rankings that come out over the winter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) But there's one problem with drafting a guy as a reliever and keeping him there. If you draft a guy as a starter and keep him there for several years...if he flops as a starter he could still become a valuable player if you move him to the bullpen. If the White Sox are intending to keep Burdi as a reliever the next 2-3 seasons and he winds up being Daniel Webb, they're not going to be able to convert him into a starter while he's still in this organization because it will take more years than he has options to stretch him out. In other words...you draft a reliever highly, you better be darn sure you're right on him. You better be willing to bet your job on it. That's the explanation. Bravo.

I don't think JR's a bad owner in the sense he's too cheap...he's had a mid-range budget most of the time, which is reasonable. He's had some peculiarities, but I don't see that as a problem. What is a problem is that he's stuck by a front office that simply hasn't gotten the job done for many years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Aren't you the guy who devalued Adam Eaton last year? Didn't devalue him. Wanted to trade him when his value was at a premium. Still do. Buy low, sell high works a lot better than the Williams/Hahn buy high, sell low approach.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Burdi isn't a "ceiling" closer. He has three pitches. Then work him as a starter. If he has starter skills, then Williams and Hahn are devaluing him in the pen. Not that devaluation of their own players is anything new out of these 2....

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) Show me how many #26 overall draft picks contributed more than a decent relief pitcher the last 24 years. Nate Jones is about a half a season away from matching all of their WAR totals combined. But keep thinking they should have drafted a first ballot HOFer there. Besides, relievers values are only going higher. The point is that you don't draft CEILING relief pitchers in the first round. You hope for better...some will work out and others won't. I they don't work out as starters then they can be reliever. Your logic would field a 60 win team...let's use our first round picks for guys were confident can be relievers and utility infielders...whoopee! What the Sox lack are impact players. These players must usually be drafted or signed internationally. Williams and Hahn have done a particularly poor job at org building. And let's be honest. Burdi was drafted to help the pen THIS year; Now that even Williams, Hahn and their Ouiji Board have to realize the Sox aren't in it, it's time to develop him as a starter.

If Williams/Hahn insist on drafting players in the first round to fill relief roles, I have no problem starting the clock. But poor organizational building, including stuff such as this, is why the Sox are where they are organizationally and with the major league team: hopelessly non-competitive when trying to win.

Todd Frazier is a joke. the bad Dunn with a glove.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2016 -> 06:49 PM) Might start seeing a little more Narvaez. Don't know why we haven't been already.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 8, 2016 -> 04:32 PM) Word is that the Pirates may look at moving McCutcheon in a salary dump over the winter. The Sox don't have a lot in the tank as far as prospects go, but could move Burdi and Fulmer for him. For one year of McCutheon who is having a bad year? 2 first round draft choices is not a "salary dump"

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 11, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) Maybe not, but spending big money on a mediocre player in Reddick or a old dh in Encarnacion doesn't excite me with everything that is coming off the books after 2017. Oh lord, now they're going to accuse me of posting under two names.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) If he truly does possess three plus pitches, why wouldn't they at least attempt to turn him into a starter? Instead, they will rush him to the big leagues to replace Robertson for yet another supposed "all in" year? Logical. Great question. And I suspect the answer is because the Sox have a desperate GM who truly is ending year 2 of his 3 year window and doesn't have the 2 years it will take to turn him into a ML starter.

Is it true that he was waived and claimed (but Sox pulled him back)?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) Four of last five save opportunities blown (by the bullpen overall)...now leading the entire AL with 21 blown saves. Bring on Burdi. At the very least, DFA Albers and let Kahnle, Ynoa and Turner give it a try. Ranaudo too, why not... I liked Ranaudo's start. Like to see more. Agree there's no point in keeping Albers around. They gave Turner a try last night...I'll say this, Turner's still not a good reliever -yet- but he's massively improved from where he was as a starter. They are keeping Robertson around because he's still their 2nd to best reliever. But I would let him go for free on waivers and invest the savings elsewhere next year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 07:15 PM) The return for Lawrie will give you the equivalent of a Hellickson or Miguel Gonzalez. At any rate, he's not worth any more now than a year ago. And the only reason to do that is if you're supremely confident in Saladino being an everyday 2b. At least as confident as I am in Lawrie, which admittedly, isn't supreme. Saladino can play more positions. He's a better player, imo. I'll take a year of the way Hellickson has pitched this year for a year of Lawrie. Give me Sale, Q and 3 Hellickson's and that rotation is fine.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 07:06 PM) Why in earth would you get rid of Lawrie? Let alone for a rental #4? Why not? He's an average player and Saladino's just as good. Lawrie is a rent himself. Trade from excess.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) That's not correct. Steverson came from Oakland. He emphasizes good ABs and getting on base. It hasn't translated because you need hitters that have good ABs and get on base. I think that covers it.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) You do know that the 3 year thing was nonsense, right? Doesn't really need to be mentioned anymore I think the Sox are actually honoring it. One more go in 2017 (which would be year 3). They've got 3 significant expiring contracts in 2017: Lawrie, Frazier, Melky. If it doesn't work, they get dumped in July. They key will be finding a C, CF, SP and another hitter without the encumbrance of a long-term contract or, hopefully, dumping prospects. Can probably get a C, maybe a hitter (that's why I suggested Puig).

Here's my quick fix. Get Puig out of the Dodgers. The price should be cheap, but a lot of teams will think it's cheap, which may make it fairly expensive. Sign Jason Castro to a 1 year contract. Trade Lawrie for like a #4 rent-a- starter. Saladino's just as good, if not better. Re-sign Morneau. Pray that Fulmer and Buri can be effective bullpen pitchers. Not sure what to about CF. Need more pop than Jackson.

2 declining veterans and a 4 year contract for a 34 year old. Sheesh Probably 25 teams can take their best case scenario, add 3 veterans and think "We could contend" But they can't. There are no quick fixes anymore. The game has changed. You either acquire and develop young talent or you don't.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 9, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) That's really tough to do in the year they are drafted especially for a guy who was in the pen in college. He may follow the sale path where they think his stuff is good enough to get MLB hitters out now but he just needs to get stretched out in the off season over the next couple of years. If that's what they're doing, then fantastic. If he's as advanced as Sale was and can move into the rotation after some time in the pen, then Hahn made the pick of the year. But if he used a pick the top 26 pick for a bullpen pitcher, then Hahn completely botched this entire situation of having 3 top 40 picks. I'm still not sure of the point of rushing him up, except that that's what Rick Hahn does. It really is feeling like 2017 is Hahn's last stand, and there will be carnage in terms of Sox assets if it doesn't work (and even if it does).

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) I'm thinking he will be traded before the end of the year. In the offseason, they'll have to outbid the competition which usually doesn't turn out too well. That's obviously what they should do. He's the best hitter on the team, by a wide margin.

I realize that Rick Hahn reached for Burdi to put in this year's pen, but even Rick Hahn has to admit that the season is over. He's a top 30 pick; you don't use that on relief pitchers, first try. Work him to start. I suppose Rick Hahn is getting him ready for next season's pen so he can howl at the moon and "go for it" again. A top 30 pick for the bullpen.

Twins have more young talent than the Sox do...and have a much better record since mid-may as well. They took a step back this year; but they'll be better next year.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Aug 7, 2016 -> 04:48 PM) I never understood this line of thinking. First off, it overvalues one comp pick, and is inconsistent with the other go-for-it moves. But in any case, signing players to one-year deals, which both Desmond and Fowler settled for, means you can just extend the QO next year and get the pick right back. If you believed these players were going to be good, which the Sox obviously did since they pursued them, it's a simple case of deferring the draft pick one year. How could that possibly have been more important? And you still have #10 and #49. I can see the argument that the risk is too great if you're giving up your only first rounder. But the Sox were perfectly set up to take advantage of the market, and unequivocally failed. Deferral makes sense in win-now mode anyway. As it is, Sox used the comp pick primarily to help the current roster (although it didn't work out that way). Sox front office has no finesse...they don't understand value or markets.