GreenSox

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) He was 65th in OPS. 65/270 puts him in the top 24% of hitters in baseball... he's one of the best and to say that "nobody wants him" is just absurd. And he can't play defense at all and he was not a good hitter the prior year. The only teams interested in him would be contenders and where exactly will a contender use him....DH. Like I said, July trade guy, presuming he has a good year and presuming Hahn doesn't take another nap this July

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 15, 2016 -> 11:11 PM) Yeah you're right, I mean who would want one of the best hitters in baseball? Melky one of the best hitters in baseball....good lord. Re trading Sale, if they want to do that and rebuild, I doubt they'd be holding out for Bradley Jr. They should also try to move Eaton if that were the case. And they really shouldn't have sat out the July period. I suspect it's more a matter of moving Sale for his antics and the idea that they could just get better with the players acquired (which may be true).

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 12, 2016 -> 11:03 PM) If you could get Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech and Swihart for Sale and Melky, do you do it? Nobody wants Melky, except in maybe a July pickup if he's having a good year. Like others said, Jones, or preferably Robertson.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 15, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) Seems like promoting two development guys to the coaching staff in Capra & Hasler signals we'll be rebuilding next year. That's an interesting angle.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/206...-coach-changes/ All in the family for Williams and Hahn. No sense of self awareness from either of those 2. Rick Hahn lives in fantasy land.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) I forget who made the point originally, but reading the subsequent posts, taking advantage of the Red Sox catching depth is a must, and makes a ton of sense if the Sox are going to try for a hybrid rebuild. Not many teams can show depth behind the plate. The best of the White Sox depth is years away, and a guy like Collins might not make it to the bigs as a catcher. I had no idea the depth at catcher the Red Sox had, and would rather see the Sox go after a guy like this versus another pitcher or position player at the end of the deal. Do any other teams have this kind of availability? I agree 100%. This is how you construct value trades...find out where they have depth and the value gained to the Sox will > value lost by the Redsox. IN no way would, say, a Swithart be a key loss for the RedSox...but he would be a key throw in for us, esp. if they are trying to still contend. But I'll believe it when I see it out of this FO.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 11:16 PM) Plus how do you replace Q and Sale? Shields is a weak link. Somehow the Sox scouting would have to be far more accurate when it comes to giving up quality cost controlled pitching. Giving that up seems foolish. The Cubs blueprint is wishful thinking. Key to the Cubs blueprint were clever and extremely productive July trades. Rick Hahn passed on those opportunities the last 2 years. I think the club needs to trade sale but I don't think Hahn has the guts to do it. I think it's more likely Hahn undertakes a major hero hunt this off-season

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) I do think a lot of posters on this board are underrating JBJ. I know we're trading the best asset the White Sox have ever had in this hypothetical and people want better than JBJ as a headliner, but JBJ is a .340-.360 OBP guy with 20+ dingers and great defense. I like your scenarios, but this gives me pause. He's only had one season like that and I'm not convinced it wasn't somewhat flukeish. This the need to pair him with an elite prospect, imo.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 07:22 PM) He had said in a few posts Jackie Bradley Jr and Eduardo Rodriguez. Okay - those guys pretty risky too, like prospects. Both could be really good- or flop. Unfinished players. Jr's defense isn't risky, though. With those 2, not sure you'd get more than 1 top prospect added on. QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 04:38 PM) I wonder what other teams could use Frazier? Mets could be a team looking for one if they end up moving Wright to 1B. He's a guy whom I think the Sox could get a lot more for if they traded him in June (and if he's having a good year). In June, when a team realizes they are a contender, they aren't so worried about 1 year on contract..prefer it in many cases.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 08:04 AM) Except the Braves made the playoffs 14 consecutive years....the White Sox have never even managed to go back to back in their much longer franchise history. Details, details.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 06:20 PM) With Anderson graduated and no other position players on the cusp, the Sox need to add youth to the lineup. I am with you on best group of players, but acquiring 1 or 2 MLB players brings immediate value while decreasing and diversifying risk. Who do you have in mind?

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 8, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) I'm laughing at this... how does one develop a #4 or 5 starter? I think Q had the ceiling of a 4 or 5 in many's eyes but turned out better than that. In short, there aren't many pitchers who are long term #4 or 5 starters, you either improve or get replaced. Putting that blame on Cooper is asinine. Same way they develop any other pitcher. Several pitched today in the playoffs - like the Dodgers and Nats starters. Cooper hasn't developed many to get replaced. The White Sox front office often falls for these frauds thinking that they're top rotation guys when they're not . bottom line is that the guru as presided over the pitching staff that has been no better than average for years despite an absolute ace on that staff.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 11:41 PM) Betts is also a 9.6 WAR. Dombrowski wouldn't trade Betts for Sale straight-up. Agree. I'm fine with Bradley...but he's got to be coupled with Moncada + A Sale trade could reinvigorate this team, close several holes, and clear the clubhouse of dog and pony show. If properly executed. But I doubt it happens - if they were too scared to make a move in July I don't see it happening now. Agree with comment above on a Red Sox sweep...that will send a message that they lack top end pitching (which they do), Porcello's freak/career year notwithstanding.

Rodon was the #3 pick in the draft and easily the most developed and dominant college pitcher in the draft. As it is, he has a ERA of 4 and a WHIP of 1.4 Is that development? What about the inability to develop anyone beyond Nate Jones in the pen? Or a #4 or #5 starter? What about not letting Junior Guerra pitch and then cutting him? Gonzales is 32 - he was not developed by Cooper. He stabilized Gonzalez into a solid #5. Throw a parade. The staff as a whole has been a little better than average at best, but mostly mediocre, for years. Cooper is a solid coach, but there is something to be said for some fresh thinking.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:30 PM) Yeah, it'd really suck to get a 26-year-old CF who can hit in the 2-spot, who's put up an .830 OPS in each of the past two seasons, and is under team control through 2020. If I'm dealing Sale, I want at least one proven young major-leaguer. Bradley and Betts are the best two fits for the Sox, and Bradley is going to be the more realistic centerpiece. Betts is a centerpiece. Bradley isn't...can still do a Sale deal without a centerpiece. It would take some spot-on scouting, analytics skill, creativity and quality negotiation....unfortunately the FO isn't exactly replete with those skills. Hahn is much more likely to be duped into trading for the next "star" some team peddles... no scouting or analytics required: don't have to do anything but pile on the prospects,

QUOTE (Sockin @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) Buried in Heyman's notes from today is the Sox have offered an extension to Cooper. http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-ba...b-playoff-teams Well of course they have.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 03:40 AM) And Castro, as one of the best framing catchers in the baseball, and an average catcher bat, would be a big upgrade. Castro hasn't had an OPS> .700 in 4 seasons. Nothing average about his bat. Should have kept Flowers if that's the road the Sox are considering (and I certainly hope it isn't-good catchers who can hit are rare and way overpriced; but no reason to pay premium for one who can't hit).

I think Hahn is definitely going to "go for it". At this point, not only do I think Hahn will "go for it", he will drop his earlier proviso of helping the current team "without hurting the future of the organization". As such, I wouldn't be surprised if any player under 25 were dealt. Look for McCutchen....has 2 years left, off of a terrible year, and I believe that the Pirates will peddle him: 3 qualities that attract and are loved by Hahn. They would be far better of identifying young OF and trading for them...but that takes scouting and talent evaluation skills and trade savvy... Thus the zeal for the "proven" player, even though the proven players that Hahn selects consistently underperform. Personally, I would trade Sale to firm up 3 positions.. I think current team and farm could get better with the right moves.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Look at Sox prospects/young players (position players) before Severson got here and after he got here. Guys like Anderson, Thompson. Look at how Eaton has gotten better each year under him and look at the minors and how better position players are doing here. I don't know that Anderson has really improved; he always was a pretty good hitter. His OPS was low .700s. Right now, he walks too little and Ks to much. Of course, I would like to see him become an .800 OPS hitter, not an Alexei hitter. And I think he has the skills to do that. Yea, that Thompson..... Good point on the vets...they are less likely to take to coaching. Anyway, he seems like a decent coach to me.

The org., not the manager, picks the pitching and hitting coaches. Steverson doesn't seem like a bad coach to me. But if they aren't listening to him, whether his fault or not, I suppose they have to look elsewhere.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) Speaking of Desmond, he basically was Jimmy Rollins in the second half. He would have helped the first half, but his second half collapse would most assuredly not led the Sox to the playoffs, and Robin would be blamed for a choke. It's hard for me to lament not signing Desmond. He was awful in 2015. It was a wish and a prayer that he would turn it around this year. One good half, bad second half. Looks like a guy Hahn will zero in on this offseason. The mistakes were wasting money on Latos, Rollins, Shields, and the 2 catchers (Hahn managed to downgrade from Flowers). Add all that money up and what do you get?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:34 PM) One of the columnists at the Tribune had this to say this morning and it's also a valid point in my opinion: "The onus is now on Hahn, the architect of this mess. And fortunately for Renteria, Hahn will make sure pitching coach for life Don Cooper is calling the shots on the pitching side. Despite fine seasons by Sale and Jose Quintana, the Sox are 14th in the majors in pitching this year, just as they were last year. They were 20th in 2013, and 27th in 2014. Cooper has never been on the hot seat, for reasons unknown. Sox fans deserve better. They've put up with a lot of nonsense the last few years, and no one seems to take responsibility." Mark That was well-said! Rodon was the #3 pick in the draft...he should be effective. The bullpen has been a bunch of nothing outside of Jones and a high priced free agent. As the article said, Cooper is "pitching coach for life" and Hahn certainly won't change that. And then some people point to improvement in the farm. Then we should expect to see at least rankings in the middle teens after 4 years of Rick Hahn's work. The mid 20s are far more likely. And then the Shields trade - terrible overpay even if Shields had been pitching decently; and when Hahn says such a decline in performance is "unprecedented" he showed a complete lack of awareness about reality. Hahn has the degrees, the looks, and he talks intelligently. But the results say that he's woefully over his head as GM.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) According to MLB sources White Sox Executive VP of BB opts Ken Williams ,is not stepping down from the post.(Some reports had him leaving) https://twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/782660367738699776 Well that's a douse of cold water. If Ventura is it, nothing is changing.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 08:22 PM) If true then the dominoes will start to fall into place and a rebuild will commence ....I would not be surprised if Sale was the first to go. I'm not sure why that would necessarily mean a rebuild. Maybe JR is fed up with 2/16...or perhaps just time to move on.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) Do we have to talk about Carlos Sanchez and Leury Garcia all offseason? Probably - because Rick Hahn will probably squander young assets chasing the next proven veteran who looks to be no better than either of those 2.