GreenSox

Nice game for Rodon...much needed and deserved.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 6, 2016 -> 09:54 AM) Mentioned guys like: Semien, Trayce, Micah, Phegley who aren't playing for them but allowed them to acquire guys that "could help" them from other organizations LOL Hahn raves about the development of guys he dumped for average veterans on short term contracts. You can't make this stuff up. Well, he's right...the development isn't as bad as reputed. But his use of assets has been clownish. And Hahn is completely oblivious to reality.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) The fact is, if you are going to totally rebuild and you are trading pillars of a core, you have to have the utmost confidence in the people tearing it down. If not, you are only going to make a bad situation worse, and worse for a long time. You're right. But I would just point out that there really are only 2 pillars: Q and Sale. Abreu, Jones and Eaton are part of a decent core, but that's where it ends. As far as moving out guys, Hahn missed his window, although he may have some chance in August. But aside from Eaton, Jones, Q, Sale, the rest of the roster would have received higher prices in July and August than it will in December. Because they players just aren't very good (as per the results).

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 10:58 PM) Isn't this more of Cooper's responsibility? He may have outlived his effectiveness. One would think And he, no doubt, had input into the Kahnle acquisition. Clean slate is needed.

Frazier. Elite bat. Navarro - swings at a crappy pitch.

They may be able to work out waiver deals for Melky and Robertson. Shields no chance - he'll sail through and it won't matter. I have much more confidence in Aranaudo pitching well next year than Shields.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) That's why I'm surprised they didn't trade him. I'm sure they tried. They'll try again in waivers and see if someone will just grab him. He's owed $30 million. If that doesn't work (and it likely won't), they'll do a giveaway and eat 2/3 of the contract.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 10:19 PM) Why is Fulmer not starting at Charlotte again? Because he needs the tutelage of the great Don Cooper who proves day after day how effective he is with young pitchers.

Big games for Shields. If he can shut down Detroit, someone might take him off the Sox hands. Melky might clear waivers.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 10:02 AM) Similar posts could have been made back in 1988 and 1998. I'd argue that the Sox are in a better situation now than they were in those years. In terms of organizational strength (personnel), the Sox are much weaker now than in 1998; 1988 may have been weaker, but that was in the process of changing, with successive drafts of Thomas, Ventura, McDowell and Fernandez et al, coupled with several clever trades, the type of which Williams/Hahn were unable to accomplish (and really aren't trying to accomplish).

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) Wonder if a Robertson/Puig swap would make sense for both teams? Makes taking the risk with Puig's contract easier, and the Dodgers could use Robertson. No idea if either would clear waivers though. Shields will get through. Maybe Melky. Robertson likely wouldn't. hasn't puig been hurt a lot, which might explain his struggles?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 05:26 PM) I know this is too good to be true. But is there any chance JR told KW and Hahn to stand pat because he plans on finally firing Hahn and KW at seasons end? Perhaps he wants his next GM to be in charge of the rebuild? I heard a comment a week or so ago on the MLB radio channel that Williams' and Hahn's contracts are up after this year. It was just made in passing, so I have no idea whether it is accurate or not.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) Shields was taken apart from an advanced stat perspective recently and the whole league read it. Plus he brings the double edged sword of the opt out. If he's awful you may owe him for two years. If he's great, you lose all control of him. There is no possible scenario that Shields could be great enough to opt out from $22 million. He's just not a good pitcher. A salary dump would be win for the Sox at this point (mitigating some of the sunk cost).

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) Disappointed and surprised nothing happened, but considering the weak free agent market, I'm willing to be patient to see what happens by mid December. That's what scares me- that they might buy into that market rather than sell.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) I don't understand the bafflement. I get that you guys think they should blow it up, but why are you shocked that they aren't? They're a .500 team with all of their core players controlled next year. They just decided to keep trying to build and win. I'm not saying it's the RIGHT decision, but it's not a confusing one either. Not really surprised they did nothing. Just baffled how a group of professionals could actually believe that a core that has failed miserably for 2 years in a row, when going for it (not in rebuilding) mode, will win next year. I suspect it's job protection and wishcasting, more than real belief, and that they will blame this year on a)Injuries and b)Ventura - tacitly by making a change.

Dunt gets thread of the month award for his prescience about White Sox front office. They can't even more Robertson. And frankly, I really doubt that they seriously tried to move the riff-raff.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 12s13 seconds ago @whitesox decision to deal Shields hinges on if he'll exercise opt-out after season. Dealt good piece (SS Fernando Tatis Jr.) to get him. What does this mean exactly? They want him to or don't want him to? There's a 99.9% chance he won't exercise (the .1% is in case he pulls a Laroche and just quits). And, yes, they did deal a good piece for a declining pitcher, but that's a sunk cost. My question is will JR kick back the $20 mill he received from San Diego; because no one wants Shields at full salary.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:10 PM) It's probably Shields as the main piece. It's probably going to happen now that they have Reddick, just My hunch. That would be a steal. I wonder if a holdup in moving Shields is that JR doesn't want to kick back the 20MM that the Padres sent his way.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 07:37 AM) Sounds like a Bruce deal may be close to happening. Will be interesting to see what the return is and if we would have been satisfied with moving Melky for it. Bruce has more value: better hitter, younger, cheaper. Still we should be trying to move him and not a word.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) I don't think those situations are as comparable as you outlined them to be. Markets were drastically different.. It's hard for me to believe that there was much of a market for Shields, an aging pitcher who was getting tatooed. But let's assume there was. Shouldn't Hahn be able to move him now, now that he is pitching much better and the market is tight? And if Hahn did strike a good deal the first time, now that he's pitching well, not only should he move him, but for more than he paid.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) Duke is just another body. He's nothing special. The outfielder we got obviously is a bust to this date or St. Louis wouldn't have traded him. This will probably be his final chance to be a starter in the bigs. While he doesn't look like anything special and won't play to the ceiling of what you hope (but usually don't get) from a #2 pick, if you read the Cardinal stuff, they say he was blocked by better prospects. He looks like he could help this team. Now if Ventura is going to sit him on the bench, then send him to Charlotte work for a month and let the coaches evaluate what he can do.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 09:36 PM) His last 3 drafts have been better than pretty much any draft under Kenny Williams from like 2003-2009 though. Indeed. And on the plus side, when looking for prospects, his hit rate is pretty good, especially as he never traded for any elite prospects (and never paid an elite price). He was 1/3 with Avi, Eaton and Davidson (although Davidson appeared to be turning the corner). But he was 2/3 with the A Ball prospects in the Peavy trade (Wendelkin threw well today for Oakland). He got a nice prospect for Beckham if you can believe it (but then squandered him when trading for someone more proven - Kahnle). This is pretty good return for non-elite prospect fishing. Trading up is where he's gone awry, imo. I hope we break this down, but I am glad he's holding out for 5 top prospects+ for Sale; he can give up on his ML player demand, but not the elite prospect demand.

Shields is having a bad year. Hahn trades 2 prospects for him and gets the money cut by 50%. Upton is having a very good year; Jays trade 1 prospect (similar to Tatis, if that) and get the money cut by 2/3. That is just one example that makes me wonder about the negotiation skill of this front office. Yes, you can come up with reasons (one is a pitcher). But there are other examples.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) I'd hope so. I guess it's better than KW, who seemed to just keep on piling prospects into deals to get them done. hahn's done some piling on too. And KW had one season where he won fewer than 79, so at least his teams were decent when piling them on. It's going to be hard for teams to pull the trigger on Sale or Q. There's a lot of risk in giving up 2 top 20s, 2 more top 100s and then some. A lot of posters have said wait until offseason, and they may be right as the teams can throw in some vets in lieu of prospects. Not my taste, obviously.

Okay - the Mariners got something for (and got rid of) Wade Miley. No reason we can't move Shields.