GreenSox

QUOTE (harkness @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:46 PM) I just wanted to add what garbage A** catching he does at times. He cost Robertson at least two strikes. Just terrible. He's terrible. Avila is a good catcher, but injury prone. Hard to believe, but Hahn seriously downgraded the catching dumping Flowers for these 2.

They need to be willing to sell anyone for the right price. They don't need to put a "for sale" sign out, they don't need to force things, but they need to be aware of opportunities and show some finesse. i.e. precisely the approach that Williams and Hahn never take. Really, JR needs to clean out hi front office. 2 playoff appearances in 15 seasons....we've seen enough off this regime.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) You are the one angry at the guy and having a public meltdown about him in the home run derby. Instead of four days of rest, he got 3. Damn you extra day! Honestly the reality is that the HRD probably isn't the problem. The reality is that the guys who are in it had the biggest home run totals in the first half of the season. In many cases those numbers are unsustainable, and they regress to the norms in the second half. Some people blame things like the home run derby for messing up their swings. Others would say that a guy with a career high of 35 homers in a season, probably isn't going to carry a season long pace of 50ish homers. Many people just point to the HRD as it sticks in their mind, instead of statistical regression. For years, I've badmouthed that gratuitous exhibition that serves mainly as a showcase for Berman to utter another hundred cliches. Nothing new. Yes, some regression can be expected...but Frazier had a meltdown last year. I thought it obvious that the Sox should pass on Frazier's participation in that.. Any bitterness I have is toward Sox management that still runs the club like summer camp, and seems to make personnel decisions without any real plan at all, except that they way prefer veterans, of any talent level.

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) Lawrie at 3B and Saladino at 2B would be a return to what I spoke about. Lawrie isn't a real 3B to me. We need some offensive power from that position, not a punch & judy hitter. that's true Although, there are other moves they can make. You can trade a good player to fill a couple of holes, perhaps including 3B. You trade Eaton or Q for a young OF and 3B, for example. I know, you lose Eaton...but sometimes you have to trade something to get something worthwhile (versus the usual Rick Hahn fodder of short term veterans). The FO could use some creativity and flexibility. As for Saladino, it would be nice if they'd let him hit so we can find out what his abilities are. Sox score 1 run in 4 games, and Ventura keeps the same lineup, except for Morneau. Right now, Hahn has valued at a utility IF. That may be accurate, but finding out if he is more won't devalue him below his current low value that Hahn has set.

One thing that would make a trade of Quintana more palatable is if Rodon would pitch like a #3 instead if a 5. That would leave the sox with a 1,3 and Fulmer looking like he could be a 3 by next year - close enough to risk it as Q trade, if executed properly, would return a YOUNG impact bat the org so desperately needs. But with Rodon throwing like a 5, you're "robbing Peter to pay Paul." Sale might be the one to trade instead as he'd return 2 impact guys. Eaton is another who could return some impact players- perhaps "one step back for 2 steps forward" to use another cliche. That would be selling high esp with his newfound defensive rep in RF. Now I say this presuming the Sox aren't in total tear down mode.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Literally none of what you said has any bearing at all on the Home Run Derby. It is just bitter for bitterness sake. Of course he should be giddy about the derby. Being asked to take part in the competition is limited to 8 players in all of baseball. It is actually a more exclusive honor than the all star game. Being upset about Frazier in the HRD is just looking for something to b**** about. Plenty of players and teams pass on home run derby. How do you know it has no bearing? Pure coincidence he tanked last year after the HRD? 4 days of rest can't possibly help a ballplayer in a year long funk? Especially when the alternative is a high energy game? Really? I Dont know if there is causation- but there's a lot of correlation. I don't hold any bitterness toward Frazier as I never thought he as anything special. He hasn't overly disappointed me. But you might look in the mirror on the bitterness front.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) It is easy to say sell, but once you do sell, unless you are Caulfield, you can't take it back. Some prospects are nice, but who do the Sox trade that brings back top prospects who,actually are any good? There were several people excited about Avi Garcia back in the day. How does acquiring players like that enhance the future? There's no doubt it's a high risk. You get into rebuilding and, if you don't know what you are doing or even run into extended bad luck, and it can be a near endless cycle. I'm not convinced it's necessary. And I think the Sox need a fresh team of front office management to do it. Even if I thought that Williams and Hahn were capable team-builders (which, obviously, I don't) I think you need a fresh team who will take an objective look at everything.

I voted stand pat. I wouldn't mind selling some players, but I am leery of Rick Hahn doing the selling. I don't want to sell everyone anyway.

If the Sox officially enter seller mode, then I would push Eaton out there front and center. Valuable as a hitter, and with his defense in RF and the great rep he's getting for that defense, should have great trade value, well above his true abilities. I'm sure JR doesn't want to rebuild, but this is the product that his guys came up with when going for it. Frazier was their elite hitter. He's got to do something.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Isn't this the type of guy you love? Failed prospects with low K rates, ERAs approaching 5 in Charlotte? Uh, no. Sox will knock Weaver around today.

So it looks like Cooper has fixed Shields....at least for now. 4 good starts in a row; went 8 last night. Assuming Hahn has seen reality re this team's chances.... is now the time to flip him?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 03:02 PM) You need a clause in there. "They've done a good job since date x" or something like that. They did a terrible job trying to build a competitive team last year and now they're stuck with a couple more years of rebuilding because of how terrible that job was. So far they're making reasonable moves in trying to recover from their self-made debacle. It was partially self-made. The Padres were a 77 win team when he took over. At least he had the awareness to reverse course quickly when his team won 74 games. He's done a good job recovering; even Myers, whom he overpaid for, probably has much of his trade value resurrected. Hahn won 76 and kept plugging. We'll see.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) It is the home run derby, not the batting average derby. It literally doesn't matter a bit what his batting average was for the contest. He also didn't "expect" it. He was asked to do it by Major League Baseball, which is an honor that players shouldn't take lightly. He was giddy about playing that thing. It's a common exhibition. The All Star Game is an honor. OPS in the .660 range last year post home run derby. Off to a roaring start this year: 1/8 and can't hit a sacrifice fly. Maybe a different approach toward the season's second half might have been in order. It's summer holiday camp.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Greg: To add to your post Torborg at least got his feet wet in the major leagues as a manager with a bad Indians team. At least he came into the Sox job with an understanding of things and how to do it at the big league level. Robin had zero experience, never coached or managed a day in his life before he took the Sox on the field opening day, 2012. Mark Lamont and Manuel had 5-6 years of experience as coaches. KW's two managers: Guillen had 3 Ventura had 0.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) Same could be said about Burns which is why I mentioned an Avi for Burns swap. That doesn't mean Oakland would be interested, just an idea. Even swap.

Preller has done an interesting job. After spending a season "going for it" he saw the reality and went the other way. This was a steal. He got more for Kimbrall than he paid when trading for him...a nice bit of arbitrage there. And he's doing a ton internationally.

Jacob Turner - centerpiece of Anibal Sanchez trade. Another one of Hahn's boys -paid $1.5 mill for him. Hope he throws well.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 11:47 PM) There's an opportunity to extend him as well. He has 5-6 years of good performance left, and the team that trades for him has 2 of those years and the highest probability of getting the rest. Yes, that was some of the rationale for the Shark rent, the Frazier semi-rent. He'll be a FA in 1.5 years. Sign him then. Sox aren't winning now with or without him. He he may not be worthy of a 5 year extension anyway. Players deteriorate.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 01:45 AM) Let's put it this way... When the pinch ran Saladino for Melky in the 9th - I was pissed. Why? Because I wanted a contact hitter like Saladino up there for Frazier in that situation. The Sox won't give Saladino 1 or 2 spot starts a week in this bottom 1/3 offense; they certainly won't use him as pinch hitter for one of their best hitters (or one they perceive as such). The reality is that Saladino has improved a lot as a hitter this year (albeit in a small sample size). But once the White Sox org. deems someone, especially a young player, as worthy of a limited role, that's that. As for Frazier, I certainly hope he had a rousing, delightful time playing home run derby, he so begged the Sox to allow him to do.

On a different subject, Henry Owens looks counterfeit to me...maybe a 5th starter or AAAA player. He's been in that top prospect mode for too long, esp considering Red Sox pitching issues. Avoid.

Yes, great work by Shields. I don't know if it's sustainable considering the peripherals, but he's done his job. How about that Todd Frazier!

Ventura didn't put together this team. Ventura's actually cut down on some of the stupid moves he once did with regularity: pinch running for the team's best hitter; bunting.

he's probably available. Most OPS .703 DHs are.

Still no Saladino.

They could fix catcher defense much cheaper than Lucroy will cost. Another short term focused move so people can howl at the moon...no thanks.