GreenSox

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) Honestly, anyone listening to you would have a terrible team on the field and would trade away any and all players before they turn 25. Except Saladino Incorrect. I wouldn't trade for old guys until a young core is built. I never said my team would win right now. It wouldn't. How's Rick's team doing in that regard, when he's trying to win? QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) Rodons development is fine, he shows flashes of dominance and then falls back to some bad habits. I'm disappointed he hasn't taken the same step we saw in his first year where he straight up dominated down the stretch, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you because that doesn't fit your narrative that he hasn't progressed at all. My point is that he's developing while service time is ticking. QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) Cooper hasn't been getting the most out of his pitchers the past couple years, I won't argue that, but your assertion that he is pretty much worthless is tiring and incorrect. You say the same damn thing all the time, we get it. You don't like Cooper and Hahn. I was and am very complimentary of Hahn's work prior to the winter of 2014. He doubled the core in less than a year. For some reason, he started trading for rents, players at or past their peak, free agents, spending a million here, a million there on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, before a core was built. And those trades weren't nearly as savvy as his early trades, respecting that some early trades didn't work out. At this point, I hope that Morneau works out and that Hahn successfully rushes Fulmer or Burdi into the pen. Because he's not going to sit still with this team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 12:05 PM) Instant gratification is rare in MLB. David Price is a guy Rodon has been compared to often. He struggled his first full year in TB, then took off. It's coming with Rodon, but it is weird that those who want total rebuilds have zero patience. it's the Sox who were impatient by rushing him up*. That's the annoyance. *(or maybe Boras made Hahn do it - whatever).

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) Most teams will take a pitcher like fulmer and start him if nothing else to huild his arm up to handle an MLB pen load. The upside could be that he ends up bring a starter. Fulmer was a top 10 pick. Starter should be the expectation, not the upside. Winning organizations do not use top 10 picks for bullpen expectations. Sox passed on best college hitter in the draft, so I certainly hope that 3 or above Starter was and is the expectation. Bullpen for #26 is dubious proposition itself, But for a top 10, it's ridiculous. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) There wasn't a need. There was an agreement to move him quickly as a part of his signing for what he signed for. Then pick someone else. As said above, it's unreasonable to expect him to be an ace right now. But the clock is still ticking. The value of 6 years of a top of the rotation guy, is now down to 3 or 4 because 2 or 3 years of service time are used for development. And, at least in 2015, he should have been used in Chicago like he would have been used in the minors...development, including getting that change-up fixed as the priority over getting the next guy out. But that's hard to do in the majors. And it wasn't done. And it's understandable. Major league coaches are there to help pitchers get the next batter out...not to develop for 2 years from now. And you wonder why I'm frustrated with this front office?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) They should trade for Alex Rios to play catcher. I can't wait for the Cargo rumors to heat up. Look forward to all of the drooling, oogling, genuflection and five player package suggestions for the player who can't outhit Rios outside of Coors field. I'll go ahead and suggest L Garcia right now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:32 AM) It is a bit weird that they'd protect Carroll over Hector Sanchez. Why would any other MLB team want Carroll desperately? Despite all the MLB pitchers we've gone through, we still haven't used Carroll or Turner. So now we're going to have to sacrifice Narvaez to the wolves. Not that he was a top prospect or anything. Reminds us, though, that stowing away the A+/AA Cuban catcher from the Nationals for an entire year had ZERO payoff at all. He's where he would be invaluable...or would have been, that experience. There was no need to protect Carroll, except that the org. likes him. Sox have 5 Carrolls in Charlotte. Turner has gotten shelled in Charlotte. Yes, they could have stashed any number of catchers..but they still shouldn't have any problem finding some guy who can at least catch.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) Their third catcher got injured the day of his debut. Which was 2.5 months ago.

Many do. But the #3 is usually not a highly valued property, unless you're fortunate enough to have a good AAA prospect, which most teams don't. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) SO NOW YOU HATE THE SCOTT CARROLLS OF THE WORLD? Also their third catcher got injured the day of his debut. Hate? I don't hate people because they don't need a spot on the 40. It's supposed to be a professional baseball organization, not a holiday camp for friends.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) So you are saying you would have passed on Rodon because of the contract demands? Interesting. If it demanded him playing before he's ready, sure. The idea of Rodon is 5/6 years of a top end guy. Well now it's down to 5, and falling.

Considering Avila's injury history, they should have had one of those AAAA guys or grizzled veterans who have played for 1/2 the league stashed away in Charlotte. maybe they do. They actually had that one guy, but released him to "clear room" on the 40. but the 40 contained such luminaries as Scott Carroll et al.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:36 AM) Not to mention that what he is learning at the major league level is great for his development. But hey, ax to grind. Gotta throw in the dumb deity comments How's that development coming, all while the control clock is ticking? And if Hahn was going to let Boras make personnel decisions, then pick someone else. Tell us, what has Cooper accomplished in the last several years? Honestly, listening to yall one would think that Hahn, Cooper and Williams have actually been winning.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) Who is next man up even? The guy they just acquired from the Astros? Saladino is the third catcher; I wonder if he can really catch or if that's just pure emergency.

The affirmative decision to rush up Rodon and his stunted development as a #4 is another feather in Hahn's cap ( Cooper's as well). Cooper's continued status as whitesox deity another issue as well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) If all that's true, why did no other organization think to convert him into a starter? Because he doesn't have all the pitches to be a starter. And while the Sox think that they could make him into a starter, I haven't seen much out of them that that's a high priority. Hahn seems intent on rushing him up. And frankly, he sort of has to to justify #26.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) No matter how you slice it, they aren't going to consider turning Burdi into a starter until next season. Therefore, if there is any chance he can help the big league club in the near future, there's no downside to calling him up other than potentially wasting an option year on him. Hopefully after a week or two, we'll see if he's worth that risk and my guess is he will be. An option year shouldn't be a problem. But you lose a control year or part of one. Plus he's had a long year already.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) With all the ridiculous things you post all the time, the most hilarious thing is your continual defense of Rios. It also completely goes against your entire philosophy, it's a complete mystery. Being on a team that won the World Series doesn't mean that player was any good. And the fact that De Aza (-1.1 WAR this year) is still playing isn't an actual argument for anything. While De Aza had a bad year his last year, he produced for the Sox the prior 2 years; and somehow he made it on a world series team. I omitted another Hahn giveaway - Thornton. Of course I would never trade for Rios. But he had a .749 OPS, after years of .850 and .756 and had the all-important credential of being "proven." Shall I list the names of players with similar stats that this board has pined for, oogled over? And when I have suggested offering L Garcia for said players, I get scoffed at, as if it's an insult to such high talent. Yes he had a bad contract...so do certain other parties.... Money over prospects. And, indeed, Caufield, I omitted several "million here, a million there" Hahn signings like Paulino et al. What could you do with that money...oh, maybe pay a few big international bonuses.....

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 03:42 PM) Interesting to note... full season #'s Austin Jackson .254/.318/.343/.661 dWAR -0.3 JB Shuck .235/.262/.398/.660 dWAR -0.1 Jackson has about double Shuck's PA's. And Shuck is trending upward. He's filling the spot fine. Just hope it continues.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 07:33 AM) Even though our turd catchers have been producing this last week, I'd probably kill a man (Shields) to see Lucroy in a Sox uniform. The marginal value from our catchers to Lucroy, isn't nearly as great as the marginal value between, say, our DH and any number of solid hitters. But the marginal cost of Lucroy would be immense. Avila is a good catcher...not a great hitter, and also injury prone (which I presume is why he splits time with Navarro)

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Jose Abreu - Strong addition Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Strong addition Carlos Rodon - Hahn got the benefit of drafting #3; anyone would have picked him Tim Anderson -My mistake - Strong pick Nate Jones - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier - Strong Addition; but At the cost of Thomposon et al Brett Lawrie - Not much trade value actually; but an acceptable player Melky Cabrera - Good this year; terrible last year. FA signing. James Shields - highly questionable if he's worth his contract; he has 2.5 years to go to prove that. Right now, he's pitching about at his contract level. David Robertson - Good signing Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer - Hope he works out; Hahn could have taken the top college bat but passed. Spencer Adams Zack Burdi Alec Hansen Trey Michalczewski Hahn had 3 drafts in the top 10; of course he's going to add talent. But is this anything special? Maybe it is. And then the opportunity cost of Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Turner and Laroche. What could have been done with those dollars? The weakest part of Hahn's arsenal are his trades for veterans and low-rent signings.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) White Sox roster when he took over in 2013: Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Players you omitted: Inherited: Tim Anderson Marcus Semien Trayce Thompson Micah Johnson Josh Phegley Several other prospects that Hahn dispatched De Aza (still playing; no value received) Rios (Playoff and WS winning team; L Garcia received)

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) I agree. He has to earn it, but it's obviously there for the taking. He needs to earn it against an objective measurement...not against the back end of this bullpen. Charlotte is full of hard throwers..we don't want him to be one of those guys. Sale was drafted to be a starter; they thought he'd be ready quickly, he was, so they eased him in via the pen. There was a time when some in the org. wanted him to stay there. Burdi was drafted because they thought he'd be an impact reliever quickly. They might be able to turn him into a starter, but opinions vary. But he wasn't #26 value as a starting prospect.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 07:31 AM) Desmond on a one year deal would bring back compensation in the offseason though. On the flip-side, if he starts at short stop for us, Anderson isn't up now. And would Sox put him in the outfield? They have a bevy of young infielders really don't try any in the outfield. Plus Desmond had a terrible year last year. Maybe they were quantifiable reasons for that that the Rangers saw, but now he's having a career year. Avi has some traits of a good hitter. He takes walks and goes the other way. He just has no power when doing it. And good hitters who take walks and go the other way usually don't strike out so much and have better batting averages. Probably be better off if he tried to pull.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 06:16 AM) There was no harm in trading for shields. Paying some of that contract may make some mad but if he pitches like has his last three starts its worth it. He's pitching like a 5th starter now. His first 2 starts were indescribable. Is he worth that price as a fifth starter? In a vacuum, no. But in the Sox circumstances, maybe. Still the poor talent evaluation out of Hahn and Cooper is a big reason for the circumstances requiring a overpayment for a fifth starter.

Sox are up 6-2. Do they really need to use Jones 3 days in a row, 5/6? He's going to need a couple of days off now.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 3, 2016 -> 10:08 AM) All this talk about how the bullpen has been awful but they're 9th in WAR and ERA in the MLB. You sure like to exaggerate Caulfield. Even if you want to go by WPA the bullpen is still in the top half of the league. 25 in WHIP and 21st in allowing inherited runners to score. They lack top end guys; Petricka would help the middle/back.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 3, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) Anderson SS Eaton RF Abreu 1B Frazier 3B Avila DH Lawrie 2B Navarro C Garcia LF Shuck CF Rather see Saladino at 3rd and Frazier DHing. Improves D and doesn't hurt O. Also risk, although slight, of losing DH spot.