GreenSox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) Interesting. The Red Sox were out before. Now back in. Once one team caves, expect others to follow. Sale is one of the better established trade pieces of all time if you think about it. Yes, if you consider 3 years left on deal.

I see that Olney wrote an article this morning that would seem to have the effect of devaluing Sale, if articles written by national sportswriters have such effect.

Just looking at the Nats' lineup, it seems that they really need Turner. The Astros, in contrast, seem that they could cover Bergman's spot with other players. Regardless, there aren't many "can't miss" prospects (basically Turner, Swanson, Bregman and I guess Benintendi belongs in that category). If Hahn has to move off one of those, which I suspect he will, I really hope he is willing to take more prospects (elite ones) rather than taking more established major leaguers (Springer, Odor) so that this org can be properly rebuilt.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 07:33 PM) It's because our front office is too scared to risk their career on anything other than a sure thing. They keep their jobs through more mediocre seasons unless they trade fan favorite Sale and make poor prospect evaluations and get a bunch of busts back. That seems to be the size of it. They keep their jobs with mediocre seasons, why threaten them with a risky rebuild unless it involves "sure things". Aggravating considering Hahn and co are a lot better at evaluating minor league talent than major league talent.

The contender that "needs" Sale the most is the Astros. Ok by me if Sox move off of Bregman, IF Astros have 2 elite prospects; they've got the depth to fill in the rest of the trade, but they may be light on elite. Second I suppose is the Redsox. They've seemed like the easiest to concoct a deal, at least on paper. The Nationals have a strong staff; that coupled with Rizzo as GM and I don't see them ever offering enough. I can't see the Cardinals; not sure they have any elite prospect; all trade proposals I've see are centered around their young decliners and spare parts.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 03:30 AM) Three top 40 prospects, including the #1 SP and #3 OF? That's the type of deal Hahn needs to take and run. Indeed he would. But I don't think Rizzo would do that for Eaton or McCutchen. Frankly I don't think Rizzo would do it for Sale. Peddling Eaton over Abreu surprises me. They must just like Abreu or maybe they think they can really can get a 6 WAR return for Eaton. I'm good with a handful of high ceiling A ballers to replace a, say, 50-100 prospect. I look at Hahn's record and the best part of the Peavy trade were the A ballers. He also dumped Beckham for a legitimate A ball prospect (whom he subsequently squandered for a AAAA reliever).

A lot of teams are going to be after Castillo. He may have gotten a favor being non-tendered.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 09:36 PM) What's new? Go to every roster and there were players that had years, add up their salary and viola! there's your list. Hindsight is 20/20. Some of those players were thought to be good gambles at that point to complement the core that we had. No - contenders do not have 7 players who are shots in the dark plus mediocre/bad starters like Garcia, Lawrie, Danks and 1/2 the bullpen (petricka et al). The only players on that list who could possibly be considered good gambles were Jackson, Albers and Avila. The rest were aging and in rapid decline, except for Turner who has never been anything except terrible. They won a good gamble on a signing: Gonzalez. Of course, they also cut Junior Guerra. If they are rebuilding, I don't really care what riff raff they sign as placeholders.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) Those guys were not placeholders. That was the Sox' poor attempt at competing with sh**y players. Which is exactly why we need to rebuild. If we rebuild - truly rebuild - Avi and Lawrie are placeholders or gone if we get better players this offseason. Lawrie has 1 year until free agency. I agree with you. Among those terrible signings were the 3 up the middle positions; and who were not on that list were bad/average (if one is generous) players like Lawrie and garcia. How was that team supposed to contend...and yet, Sox brass thought they had a contender and blamed injuries for 78 wins. That is simply not being attuned to reality. Thus while Lawrie et al SHOULD be placeholders...I am not convinced that they are.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) Even better. - Melky's 15 million and Sales 13 or so. We're going to have an Oakland-like payroll if we sell these guys. Signing placeholders for 3 or 4 mil (1 WAR is worth roughly 8 mil BTW) has no effect on any business moves. They're getting paid for what they've been. Less than 1 win players I wish I had your confidence that re-signing last year's bad starters means that they are now placeholders. The only way signing Lawrie makes any sense to me is if they are moving he or Saladino to 3rd as, indeed, placeholders. Here were last year's mere placeholders: Jimmy Rollins: $2,000,000 Austin Jackson: $5,000,000 Dioner Navarro: $4,000,000 Mat Latos: $3,000,000 Matt Albers: $2,000,000 Jacob Turner: $1,500,000 Alex Avila: $2,500,000 Total $20,000,000 Anyone who criticizes such astuteness is clueless.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) There's really not much to b**** about here unless you're looking for something to b**** about here. It's a position in which the Sox have depth that can at least replicate Lawrie. $3 million here, $4 million there. it adds up. And the Sox have squandered a lot with such signings of bad players.

This is worse than re-signing Avi. Does Rick Hahn actually think Lawrie's a good player?

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) TBH, I wanna see a Ken Giles-esque depth package in return for Jones, even if it isn't super elite guys. I'd much rather throw in D Ro or Jennings. That would be nice, but I doubt the Sox will see that. The Sox, under this front offices, just don't get those kind of packages. Eaton should be worth more than McCutchen, but I don't think either nets multiple top prospects.

Good lord. So much or the idea that the Whitesox had made improvements in their pro scouting. I want a rebuild...can't see what A Garcia has to do with that.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) Couldn't agree more. I love having Eaton on the Sox, but he is not the type of player you want in a rebuilding situation. I think his antics would really get the better of him playing for a losing team for the next few years. Eaton was more serious and more productive last year; perhaps a result of further declowning of the 25 man (Alexei, e.g.). Trad him, yes, if someone wants to pay for a 5 WAR player( which I Doubt). Sale and the vets should bring sufficient fresh talent to revitalize this org. It's a lot more to trade than the Cubs or Astros had (although premiums are often better achieved In July, esp for short term vets). Q and Eaton would be solid building blocks. Note that the Astros held back Altuve in their dispersal and rebuilding. The Sox were bad last year because Hahn has not built the Sox up the middle (affirmatively downgraded catcher and filled CF late last year). The staff and pen were each 3 deep. The org had no depth. He then refused to do much in July for 2 years running. He seems to be frozen until he can move Sale...hope he doesn't forego opportunities to move others in the meantime.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:10 PM) I'd rather have McCutcheon starting in center field for the White Sox than Tilson the next 2 seasons. If the team can get him from the Pirates for some common prospects, I would do it in a heartbeat. Starting Tilson in center over McCutcheon isn't rebuilding, it's nuts in my opinion. What is nuts is this team trading for McCutchen. Rick Hahn had his chances overpaying for proven veterans and he failed....miserably.....twice. Rick Hahn needs to leave fantasy land, return to earth and do his job. And one would hope, after moving Sale and perhaps some of the proven veterans on this team that the Sox would wind up with a CF a mite better than Tilson anyway.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:50 PM) Surely the White Sox will continue to be defined as a large-market team while Detroit and St. Louis, not to mention the rest of the AL Central, continues to be considered small market. Sox never took advantage of that international cap to sneak one or two years of huge Latin American classes into the system. As someone else said, rich and forward-thinking teams got richer and richer, everyone else got left behind at the starting line. This won't change much for the Sox. Nothing in it should instigate the Sox to give any more than their usual half-hearted effort on the international front; the forward-thinkers are now limited, so the Sox won't be hurt as badly by their international lethargy.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:24 PM) Jennings with a 2.08 ERA and a 194 ERA+ in 2016. Might be a good time to sell high. They should if they can, but I doubt they can. His peripherals weren't very good, and most GMs don't ignore those.

Jones is the only Sox reliever with real trade value; D Rob would have some, but for the contract. Putman is okay - The Sox like Petricka, but his numbers are terrible.

Not trading with the Cubs is silly but I don't see why Hahn had to say anything. And do the Cubs have the prospects the Sox want anyway? They've hyped Schwarber to the gills, and even if the hype were legit, he's still a DH. they've also hyped Soler ...but no one's buying that one. What is the deal the Sox could get from the Cubs that it couldn't turn down?

Thanks My mistake. I can see the nontenders on those 2.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 10m10 minutes ago Garcia, Lawrie among White Sox non-tender possibilities http://atmlb.com/2gm8jpM via @mlb What does L Garcia make? Seems like a useful utility guy, esp as we've spent over $2 mil per head on Bonificio, Beckham, etc.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:10 AM) I would prefer to explore someone like Mike Zunino, who although he can't seem to hit over .200, has huge power, but most importantly, plays really good defense and is a good pitch framer. Swihart has rated below average so far in his short career. Might give the Mariner's a chance to stretch Edwin Diaz back out to starting like he was prior to June of 2016 (now that they moved Walker), or maybe see if Diaz can be a 2-inning Andrew Miller type guy before Robertson comes in to close. Who the hell knows, but them trading Walker and Marte for Segura suggests they might be trying to win now. (Although Mariners did decline option on Iannetta, so they will be without a catcher) Mariners are trying to win now. Dumping Ianetta is more evidence that they are trying to win than they aren't.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) I'm OK with the White Sox blackballing the Cubs when it comes to trading for one simple reason, I have zero faith that Hahn/Kenny can win a deal with Theo on the other end. Zero. I don't have faith that Williams and Hahn can win a deal from any GM except maybe Jockety. But they should be able to get a good return that may turn out to be a great return. Even if you don't want to deal with the Cubs, just be polite and take their calls...you don't need to affirmatively tell them that. I would avoid the Nats as well; they aren't giving up Turner, they don't have that many prospects, so there is very little room for error. Rizzo would probably make mincemeat out of Hahn.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) Pretty straight forward question: if the Sox end up trading Sale, do you think the haul and free agent additions could lead them to having a better team? I think it'll be hard to replace Sale's value, but I could definitely see a situation where the Sox plug 1-2 holes with studs, get trade pieces to fill other holes, then maybe fill in free agency. They still keep most of their core with extra control (Q, Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Jones, etc.) and add young talent to supplement that core while not fully committing to blowing the entirety of this core up. With the way this offseason has developed so far, I could see this being the move of the front office. They could be better next season just with the haul. Forget any serious FA acquisitions right now.