GreenSox

Good job Ventura handling the pen last night. Used the experienced guys for the high leverage, but earlier, innings. Used the rookie to pitch a clean, but later inning. And that last pitch from Ynoa, which had become a leverage spot, was a bullseye square to his target.

This is like the 6th "stuff no command" high minor reliever the Sox have picked up in the last 6 months (Kahnle, Lamb, etc). If one can be fixed, that will help. Ynoa is also one of those types- might be a keeper.....he threw that one bad pitch last night but no harm in the end.

This is the kind of game we saw in April Great job by the pen.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:32 PM) We'll trade Saladino for Jay Bruce or something and Saladino will go on to be a solid starter for years. I certainly expect them to trade him. To Hahn/Ventura and the rest, OPS .700 from a vet >>>>>> OPS .650 from a young player with room to grow. And trading for Bruce is just the kind of fool move I expect Hahn to make. Not sure what kind of player he'll be, but I've liked what I've seen. To sit him like this amongst this team of stiffs is just ridiculous. I see Colton Wong is now playing CF. That's a concept that's just beyond the grasp of the White Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Giving him facts is a complete waste of time. It is like talking to a Trump voter. That you think the last 2 drafts have been good is an opinion, not a fact. How's Fulmer looking, in your opinion? We're investing internationally? The Cubs, RedSox etc invest. I believe Hahn himself said that he's paying a whopping one big bonus. That's not an investment - that's doing the minimum. But you asked for facts: 4 players for 1 season of Shark A top 100, a CF who raked (possible NL rookie of year) and another prospect for 2 years of Frazier. Hopefully Frazier can hit .220 Two pitching prospects for sub .700 OPS Lawrie (despite having promising youths Sanchez and Saladino on the roster). Signed Keppinger, Latos, Rollins, and Bonificaio ($3 mill!!!!) all of whom had to be DFAd. Also signed Beckham for $2 million Gave De Aza and Thornton away for nothing; both had productive years left. Traded Rios for Leury Garcia; Rios helped the Royals win he Worlds Series. Signed Adam Laroche. Horrible, then put on a clownact, and Hahn's boss had to step in and fix the clubhouse. Signed Albers, and Duke, both of whom have been mediocre Robertson has done his job. Signed Melky Cabrera - okay this year, terrible last year; can't play defense Kept Ventura and Cooper around Traded for Shields 63, 73, and 76 wins under his leadership. 1 post-season in a decade from he and Williams. Facts Of course, before most of that, he got Eaton and Abreu. Then he decided that declining veterans were the better use of resources.

Renaudo needs some Ks in AAA to suggest he'll get anyone out in the majors.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 09:13 AM) Johnson should have an advantage being able to go to the NL and to pitch in one of the most pitcher friendly stadiums in the league. If he doesnt see any success in San Diego he just isnt ever going to. I agree. That park should minimize his weaknesses, if he can otherwise pitch well. But it hasn't so far. Of course that's the park where Shields was pitching as well....

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 07:00 AM) Hopefully there's some great 19/20/21 year olds theys plan on signing. Some of that may make an impact a little quicker than the 16 year olds. Long term investment. Apparently there is a flood of international guys finally hitting Arizona. Might hear from some of them in 2-3 years. But once you get that pipeline flowing, Sox should have several at each level and should substantially strengthen the farm.

Looks like a good pickup.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:29 AM) Johnson s*** the bed every time he came up. That isnt on Cooper, thats on Johnson. Dude has given up 10 homeruns in 4 starts this season. But please, continue on with your extended whine. Like I said, we'll see which pitcher out-performs which. It's a fair test. Probably both will stink. Which of course, would be a big negative for the Sox (and still a positive for the Padres). Of course, if Shields can pitch like a 3, then it's a big win for the Sox. Work thy magic, Cooper.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 02:20 AM) I agree we should trade Q. The Sox simply cannot score runs for him, so be merciful and trade him for 4 very good prospects. It's not working out cause the Sox won't play ball the days he pitches. They just won't. My guess is that the return from Sale v. the value of sale would exceed the return for Q v. the value of Q.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Everyone is exhausted talking about Ventura...and this whole Shields debacle (so far) has almost forced everyone to start looking up higher on the food chain. JR is the only one who knows who was the biggest advocate and pushed the hardest for Shields. Maybe KW, maybe Hahn...I doubt it was 50/50 an equal presentation from both execs when they made that pitch to JR. Well we know what KW's strategy was: this. And what we're seeing from Hahn since 2014 differs very little from the Williams approach. Now Hahn's first year differed significantly when he doubled the young core, but that came to an abrupt halt when he traded 4 prospects off of a mighty 73 win team to rent Samardjija. . Since 2014, Hahn has been relentless in his pursuit of veterans. Hahn's early work has now been subsumed in the subsequent 3 years of a GM clownshow. Both need to go.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) Especially with their offensive struggles the first two games and then Q tonight....they'll be like sharks sensing blood in the water across an entire ocean and going into predator/cruise control attack mode. Erik Johnson today, Shields goes tomorrow. "Almost all of his hits were with two strikes," Padres manager Andy Green said. "I think it's a little bit of a function of he's working predominantly one side of the plate." Johnson and Green saw some progress. "Compared to my last outing, I'm definitely taking more than a few steps forward," Johnson said. "I had a feel for all four of my pitches. I used them well, just a few balls left the yard. "For me, it's just putting myself in situations where I've got to stay away from that." Read more here: http://www.sunherald.com/sports/article843...l#storylink=cpy Well, we'll see. Cooper wanted nothing to do with Johnson. He's pleased with Shields' side sessions. We'll see which pitcher under which coach gets better. We'll see if Cooper still has the magic (that is continuously touted but hasn't been apparent in a decade). Now Cooper didn't make the trade - that was Rick Hahn. So Shields needs to be a lot better for it to make sense and to be a rare positive in the Hahn ledger.

Although they'll never do it with they need to do is cut down the regular season , and add some legitimate playoffs series instead of the bogus one game wild card games. 5 game playoffs are pretty ridiculous as well. Actually they could do it. Expand the roster the 28 and schedule some twinbills. Sox could go on one of those "false hope" runs. They don't play the Tigers Royals or Indians until the end of next month.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) I was just thinking about why Hahn gets SO MUCH credit for the Eaton, Sale, Q and Abreu (this isn't as good, starting next year) contracts. Why do we have the assumption that nobody else could have done the same? That you have to have a law or business degree to pull it off? Then I thought about the Indians and looked at their payroll. Still well under $100 million, despite the Swisher/Bourn/C.Johnson debacles. Carlos Santana 5 years/$21 million 2017 option Michael Brantley 4 years/$25 million 2018 option Jason Kipnis 6 years/$52.5 million 2020 option Corey Kluber 5 years/$38.5 million 2020/21 options Carlos Carrasco 4 years/$22 million 2019/20 options Yan Gomes 6 years/$23 million 2020/21 options Josh Tomlin 2 years/$5.5 million 2018 option That's not even considering future extensions for Lindor, Jose Ramirez, Salazar (top five pitcher in the AL now) and possibly Trevor Bauer, if he's not traded. That's what is called a young core, and all locked up under favorable contract conditions. You can quibble about Brantley's injury history, and Gomes also hasn't gotten back to his 2014 form, but WOW. It's that number of players that stands out. Cleveland has a core of 8-10. Rick Hahn started trading for short-term and otherwise mediocre veterans when he had a core of 4. That shows how overmatched Hahn is as a major league GM (and I'm sure he's hand-in-hand with Williams in refusing to build a core).

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) That leaves you without a viable infielder on the bench. If the Sox would stop carrying 5 OF's I'd agree that would be a logical thing to pull. Well, there's no reason Lawrie can't sit once or twice a week; he's the extra infielder when he does. Neither Coats nor Shuck can hit and neither is particularly good defensively. Heck bring up Leury...he's hitting well in AAA, and Coats (.294 OPS)/Schuck (.496 OPS) are hitting at about what Leury hit in his ML stint. Leury can play IF and OF. If Rick Hahn GMd the Giants, he'd have jettisoned Brandon Crawford years ago in favor of a proven .690 OPS veteran infielder.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) He has subbed each of the past 3 games, just like his job description says. Don't fret Yea, 5th infielder, per these eagle-eye White Sox FO talent evaluators. Frazier hasn't had a multi-hit game in a month. Saladino had one his last game.

One With the gift of Laroche savings, they are signing one for big money. No wonder this org gets anywhere.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 04:27 PM) It's frustrating imo. Ventura isn't part of the solution. That means he is part of the problem. Hahn's moves have generally been mediocre at best but RV's tactical decisions actively hurt the team on a weakly basis. His leadership, while less tangible, appears to be awful as well given how many players under-perform on a yearly basis under him. Of course Ventura is poor strategically and should have been fired at any time over the past 3 years. But it's pointless as long as the front office MO is to acquire more vets, especially the declining variety. No manager can win with that personnel. But if Hahn is aware that his moves have stunk, maybe, just maybe, he'll stop making those type of moves.

QUOTE (y2chae @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) Also guys like Jones, Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson, Duke all have value. Maybe you don't get an "exciting" prospect back but some raw high reward type prospects. Agree those guys have value of varying amounts. it's up to the FO to extract it.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Heard Bruce Levine on the radio this morning and he said Hahn has not fired Robin yet because he feels the players are still trying hard. He said the reason they are bad are because of the moves he made have not worked out and it has nothing to do with Robin. it's positive to hear that Hahn has such self-awareness.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:34 PM) Who exactly would you prefer to see him play over? He could play over Lawrie or Frazier from time to time. Neither of those 2 are hitting. Either could use a rest. Not everyday; but sitting him for a week is ridiculous.

There's some good talent on that list, but none of the real talent is close to major league ready.

It might be time to trade Sale. We'll see. But you don't do it until Williams/Hahn/Ventura/Cooper/Bell and the rest hit the road. Certainly don't want Rick Hahn conducting a Sale trade nor the usual suspects evaluating the possible return talent.

Still no Saladino. He's now 5th infielder. He's so out of here in the next Hahn trade for a dogmeat veteran.