GreenSox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) That summarizes the Hahn regime quite well.... Anyway jokes aside...the organization has 3 contributors who hit free agency at the end of 2017. At the same time, the price of several other guys is creeping upwards, and then Eaton hits FA at the end of 2018. Like it or not, there is a literal clock on this roster - just to tread water, to stay where they are right now, will cost an extra $20 million+ at the end of 2017 and another $15 million+ at the end of 2018. And that's with players getting older too. At some point before July of 2017, one of four things is going to happen. Either they're going to finally get extremely lucky and have everything work perfectly, they're going to have to majorly sell off a number of players to just get something for them, they're going to have to sell everything in their organization's upper levels even guys they don't want to move to try to put a competitor on the field, or they're going to have to be content with guys walking away for nothing. They're an above .500 team right now but they are 4.5 games out of the wild card, and in the middle of a pack of 5 teams all within 1 loss column game of each other, all of whom are behind 3 other teams for those 2 slots. They could sit back and hope things go well in the 2nd half and maybe they're the team that gets lucky, but with that many opponents in the way the odds are low. They could sit back and hope things go well next year, but that's risky too - one bad luck injury could derail the franchise. You're over .500 right now and you've got tradeable assets in Fulmer, Adams, and Rodon. Standing pat right now and hoping things work watches time tick on the clock you gave. If you're worried about that clock and you look at the other things that will happen to this franchise, and you're unwilling to sell guys, the other option is to make your move right now and try to turn it around, a-la the Blue Jays last year. Doing nothing doesn't cost you anything this year, but it also eats away your time and is a high risk move itself. If you're worried about them "continuing to find lower to go", then sitting there and doing nothing big is a great path to that end result. First, the Sox could have Eaton through 2021. The idea is to build a team that can consistently compete. This theory will help chances in 16 and 17, but turn the Sox into the Reds for 2018 and likely beyond. Yes, the Sox lose players after 2017....of course, that's their own doing as Williams contrived this fictitious "3 year window" and dutiful Hahn executed accordingly. But it is Sox reality - players are done after 17. Big deal, none are difference makers. The better plan would be to accelerate the dispersal, move Frazier, Lawrie and Cabrera on now..include Robertson in the mix. Or don't. Stick with this group and see what they can do. Continue to build the organization. But jamming more resources into this "16/17 or bust" window is not the answer.

I realize that the quality of the minor league teams does not reflect the quality of the prospects (teams at all levels, both Sox and others, are replete with org. guys of various sorts). But man this is one collection of sorry minor league teams. Only Great Falls shows any competence as a team; most are dreadful.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 10:28 PM) They can't trade Frazier anyway. Not if they want to compete in 2017. Unless they're counting on Saladino again at that position. Or Davidson. At any rate, it won't happen as long as Hahnilliams is still around to make the decisions. I agree that there is close to zero chance that Hahn/Williams trade Frazier. But if they shore up other spots via that trade, they certainly could compete. He's no difference maker. Saladino should be getting more at bats the way this team is stacked up anyway. it would be nice to see what they have in him (although eagle-eye Hahn is likely convinced he's a utility infielder). While I realize that the prime motivation in drafting Burdi was this year's pen, it would be ridiculous to bring him up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) While I don't see them selling, I also don't see any of the top prospects going anywhere either. Maybe a guy like Adams or Danish if they have given up on them, but Fulmer isn't going anywhere the way I read the cards. They are prepping him for the team right now. that's true but the only top prospects they have are Fulmer and the guys drafted this year. There's nobody else. There are several others I would hate to lose - guys who are showing improvement and have ability, but who will never be hyped as prospects - especially for the usual Williams/Hahn veteran.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 07:12 PM) If the Sox were drawing 35k a night being terrible they would sign these guys and pay penalties. Last I checked, though the futures game performance doesn't get you into the hall of fame. But I am sure they are can't miss. How much did the Sox spend on Abreu? You really have no clue. It is so comical how ridiculous you have become. Abreu wasn't an amateur signing - he was ready to play player...essentially a free Agent. He was not a long-term international investment whose fruits wouldn't be seen for years. It's a legitimate question whether the resources used on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers year after year wouldn't be better served as investments in the organization, including international signings. The Sox basically do the minimum.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) Did you see the Keith Law tweet last night to the effect of "it's good to see Fulmer back to his Vanderbilt delivery" Did he stop doing the delivery changes he was trying out and is that why he's back to his dominance? From my layman eyes, he's got the same delivery he always had (I never saw the "Changed" delivery, if it ever changed). it's rushed and has that hitch. Hope it doesn't cause any issues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Add that to the fact the Sox do develop pitchers. Like whom? Rodon? #3 pick in the draft? I would hope so, and he's a bit stunted anyway. Why are they having to scramble for 2 spots in the rotation and the last 2 spots in the pen (and the first 5 spots in the pen aren't filled wit Sox developed players, except for Jones). The drafts appear to be better (although still too many bullpen pitchers, ). they've done better developing position players lately, really.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) Sox should be aiming at the division. Wild Card is looking so much tougher and even though they're out 7 games Cleveland has really cooled off. With that said I don't even know who they would sell off that would bring any value besides the core guys. Might as well stand pat. I agree that the division is at least as attainable as the wild card.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) Lastly, will the Sox make any moves before the deadline? I for one am not willing to accept Jackson & Morneau coming back as their "pickups". I think they could use another bat on top of that & at least one pen arm. The Sox are better than last year; but last year, they weren't as good as theirrecord. they could buy and add maybe 2-3 wins; wouldn't be enough especially considering the other teams will buy. But as others have pointed out, he likely won't buy a pure rent, so he can then explain to us that we are merely in year 2, and that this is all part of his 3 year window.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:12 PM) And the Cubs...what an embarrassment of riches, between Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez...talk about bat speed and hand-eye coordination. Torres - $2.8 million signing bonus Jiminez - $2.8 million dollar bonus Bonifacio - $3 million salary. Beckham - $2 million salary And we wonder why?.......

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) That Charlotte roster is something else... As best I can tell it's 4 prospects, and the rest organizational minor leaguers. The entire staff consists of org. guys, except perhaps a couple of bullpen guys who are closing in on org. status. Telvin Nash with the Dash is a strange situation. 3rd round pick, released by a couple of teams; rarely has had an OPS below .800 in any minor league level. Walks a lot with decent power. BUT....he strikes out in 41% of his at bats.

Anderson is going to have to take more walks for him to be a consistently excellent hitter. No question. Hopefully that will come. But I see no reason to move him out of the 1 hole now. He's comfortable there, he's developing. I don't see the issue.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) My guess is if they're trading for anyone of substance, he'll not just be a rental. This doesn't include bullpen help, thou. Probably true. They'll go for a 1.5 -2.5 year guy or a pay down a bad contract with extra prospects. It will be a veteran at or past his prime. We likely have at least another year of Rick Hahn's dog and pony show.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 04:16 PM) The White Sox have a golden opportunity to tease everyone with another series win. However, they lose a series at home vs a horrible Atlanta team. This team is nothing more than an 82 win team. That will NOT be enough to win that second wildcard spot. I would say sell, sell, sell and either start prepping for 2017 and beyond. However, we all know what will happen. Hahn and KW will with stand pat and hope to catch lightning in a bottle ( their famous approach), OR they will sell off three or four of our best prospects for an impact bat. The sad thing is, I think it will be the ladder AND they will STILL miss the playoffs. That's how sad our organization is. Yep.

And some clowning from the usual candidates to round things out today. Nice.

Regardless of the stadium lease, the Sox still have a bigger budget than everyone but Detroit. It's how they use their money that's the problem. Hahn's strength is numbers and contracts. He's way over his head in his current job.

Peter with a bomb. He's hitting well.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) I can't wait until Avi never wears a Sox jersey again. Why isn't Saladino DHing right now again? Good question

We could get a mediocre reliever easily. Just offer Saladino or Sanchez and he's ours. Not to get people too excited, but the Brewers have a couple of guys in their 30s who could be ours. Of course, that's the last thing a sensible organization would do....

Avi At DH again; won't even give him a day off. Saladino has as many homers in 40% of the at bats.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 10:08 AM) Yea, Robertson isn't that good, but the Cubs could use him in their shoddy bullpen. I'd trade Robertson for Schwarber hoping he can DH and platoon at first base next year. That would be the gift of all gifts.

Is Delmonico hurt? I notice he hasn't played in 2 weeks. Charlotte is mostly AAAA players these days. Peter seems to be adapting to AAA pretty well. Engel is getting things together in Birmingham as well. Luis Martinez has been solid his last 4 games in Kanny.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) What kind of package for Quintana and Frazier? Quintana - 2As and a B; or an A and 2/3 Bs. Plus a couple of lagniappe low level guys. Prob not enough Frazier - B and a C

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Yes, Hahn saved his scant few A prospects, just like any decent organization would. He hasn't traded for A level veteran talent either. But he's sent away a lot of Bs. And he has far fewer Bs than other orgs. Far fewer. And yes, I know yall know how I feel. Yall post the same trade ideas, and I post the same objections and suggest saving the Sox prospects. There is no trade of which you can conceive that will make the Sox legitimate world series contenders. No gaggle of Brewers or Cargo will put this team into the World Series. The Sox budget is competitive...IF you have a core of young talent. The Sox don't have near enough to take starting jobs; and another effect of trading the Bs, is that Hahn squanders some of his budget on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, when your B prospects could take those spots.

My requisite post The Sox will never get anywhere if they keep moving their better prospects for 1-2 year veterans who have reached peak. Yes, it will meet the Williams/Hahn mythical "3 (now 2) year window" and it obviously would excite fans. But the Sox won't win. Some teams can do this sort of thing...those with stocked farms. The Sox system is thin, including, despite claims to the contrary, pitching. Looking for a catcher is particularly bad idea, as the marginal value of a catcher upgrade isn't as great as, say, the marginal value of a hitter, but the cost would be much higher.