GreenSox
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Nationals (Scherzer) @ Sox (Shields)
GreenSox replied to BaconOnAStick's topic in 2016 Season in Review
A good start by Shields would be a cool breeze. -
Top 30 International Prospects; July 2nd 2016
GreenSox replied to Y2Jimmy0's topic in FutureSox Board
QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) What the f*** are you even talking about? You literally b**** now without even providing any context to what it is you're upset about. If you're going to pollute every thread with your non-stop whining, can you least put forth some specifics so it can generate some discussion. I put forth plenty of specifics. Some posters simply deny them, and put forth daft and profane posts like yours. The context here is clear: the Sox are not making a major investment in the international market, it seems to be less an effort than usual (not in on any top 30s) when the usual efforts haven't been "all in", and this is a year in which it would behoove them to do so, and with the Laroche situation, they have some resources. As for whining, the definition of whining is whether one agrees with conventional wisdom (not whining) or disagrees (whining). It's all about who/what one whines about. -
QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 06:00 PM) Actually anyone can do that. After you hit reply just go in and make any changes. After 12 years here you should know that by now! Yes you're right.
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Isn't that cute. Using your admin privileges like that. You showed me!!
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yes, Jay bruce is the difference maker. Keep throwing good money after bad, Kenny Hahn. And please don't mention the name Anderson (or Fulmer, or Adams) in the same sentence with Bruce. I know there is a high reverence for a year or 2 of low OBP NL sluggers, but that would be ridiculous.
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Thus the need for a strong organization; a foundation of young players first if you want to win. Pin this Balta post please.
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) They do develop pitchers, which is what keeps them in business. There will always be a market for pitchers. Sale but he was a first round draft choice. Rodon was "can't miss".... And.....? A few here and there, most of whom they traded. Maybe you can count Q but he pitched like 50 minor league innings. I'm not convinced that they're so much better at pitchers than hitters, especially recently. the top prospect is a hitter. Trayce was a hitter. Semien can hit. Saladino, imo, will hit pretty well for an IF. Who's #2 in Charlotte behind Anderson? Delmonico? Hitter. I think they're getting okay with hitters. But it takes some time.
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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) Since 2000, the KW reign only 2 teams have more World Series wins than the White Sox. Boston has 3 and SF 2. There are 7 others that have won 1 like the White sox. So in this timeframe they are better than 20 teams and equal to 7. Now you can say that it is time to move on and change things, which I wouldn't disagree with. However, you can't say that under KW they have done nothing and he wasn't an effective GM. he has a ring; I never said he never was (although I think others were better). I said he isn't now. And it's not because of lack of skills. His methods will work if you have a strong foundation (Dombrowski does what he does; so does Brian Sabean, although Sabean has toned it down a lot under their GM). But those teams have much stronger org. foundations that I believe KW has put insufficient attention into rebuilding. Brandon Crawford was never super in the minors; he certainly wasn't super in the majors for 3 years...but they stuck with him. Around here, he'd have been put in the utility infielder dustbin. I thought they were making progress in 2013, and they stopped.
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:21 PM) That should show you how much a "stocked farm system" promises you as a MLB team. Or how the stocked farm was managed - and whatever it was, it wasn't restocked well. He inherited a winning MLB team as well. Look, prove me wrong. Load up with proven veterans and actually win. They just keep doing the same things that haven't worked. And they don't do the things that seem to work at the winning organizations. So yes, when they keep doing the same thing and getting the same inadequate results, I'm looking for a change in course.
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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) Just because you brought it up. How many World Series wins and playoff appearances did the White Sox have under his predecessors? None, but 2 playoffs in 16 seasons after inheriting a stocked farm and MLB team with at least a league average salary structure are lackluster results. QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) Honest question - its obvious you have so much hatred for the White Sox - why don't you just give up caring, or find another team to cheer on? Again, honest question - no sport/hobby should make you as miserable as you appear to be towards the Sox, so why spend so much time loathing over it? I disagree with how 2 employees - Williams and Hahn - manage the White Sox. They are assuredly NOT the White Sox
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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) This is the team you root for though. This is what they do. They are going for it. They are going for it next year. They aren't rebuilding. I wish they would spend $25-$30 million in the international market but they just don't do it. How did they deplete their system with this move? I'd argue that they could trade Shields in 2 months and acquire more than they gave up. That's what the team under Kenny Williams does. That's not what happened under his 2 predecessors. Yes, they could flip Shields for more than they paid if he pitches better than he has. But, to paraphrase, that's not what they do.
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:43 PM) The reality is that the middle of March was way too late to do this for 2016. Those deals are being made a year in advance, if not more, for the kind of players you are wanted to make those deals with. Teams are already working on the class of 2017, not 2016, except for a very few cases.True, but they really should have been in anyway, considering the absence of heavy hitters this year. And in the past couple of years, they have signed a top 30 guy or 2 each year.
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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) There's also the fact that people might think the Shields money ( or any money) might be better spent on the international youngsters while many of the teams who went spend crazy are punished for doing so. Good teams stockpile young talent and have thrown stupid crazy money into the kids from the DR and young Cubans. The Sox do nothing but the bare minimum in that area. But yea go ahead keep looking at the trade in a vacuum for its value for a declining innings eater in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs for a year or 2. Right on the money I didn't realize I had such an ally! Sox should have spent the Laroche savings on the international market. They are nowhere to be found.
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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) I don't know how you misunderstood my intent in making my comments to you. I am actually supporting you . You certainly did. Boy did I mess that up. I didn't really read what you were saying - just saw the names - and completely misinterpreted your point. And not in a respectful manner. I apologize to you and to the board. And I agree with your post.
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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) .928 OPS. If the Sox had this guy do you think he would be considered the most offensively well rounded player on the team with those stats ? Right on the money. I deleted the rest of my gibberish and my apologies again.
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) The problem with acquiring a guy like Shields is if he does what he was acquired to do, be a 4th starter, it will be a disappointment to the majority of fans who expect him to be an ace. Anyone who expects him to be an ace needs a new prescription. If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's that #4 guy (probably a 5 on a really good team). Latos, season wide, has been a 5. Gonzales not really that (but slowly improving I suppose). So, if the Sox can get 7 give up 3, he'll be a help. My issue is that I don't think he can deliver that. But maybe he can - when you're on a bad team like the Padres, it's easy to lose focus, etc.
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:28 PM) There is still 7 weeks to do so, and Rick made it clear that they are still actively shopping for improvements. I have no doubt they would love to find another power hitting OF. Probably true. Another patch. Maybe this time it will work.
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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:24 PM) I wonder if one of the reason they got Shields is possible trade bait before the deadline. Hahn and Williams aren't that creative.
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IF he pitches well and the Sox continue to slide, they can dump him in 6 weeks for more than they gave up (if the FO is savvy and willing, both doubtful). If he pitches well and the Sox contend, even better. If he sucks, he's an albatross for 2.5 seasons.
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QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) They are super high on Lux. Sounds like they are worried he will be around at 26. That's a reach. Sign him for below slot, then and using the savings in later round.
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QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) You can't do both? Are people actually wanting Robin to stay because: A) He's a good manager B) Manager doesn't matter, so why change in the middle of a season? C) I take the side of management no matter what, so until they make the move, I support their decisions. D) It's mostly unlikely they make a change, so I'll take that side because it's the "winning" side. E) The front office, primarily the top of the front office, is the problem in this organization. I don't think he's a good manager, but I'm indifferent re firing him at this point.
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) That is half an inning more, and it will go up once he isn't pinch hit for in the American League. You can see that pretty clearly in his pitches per start numbers and his IP/Start in the NL vs AL. We'll see. If he performs as you suggest AND the Sox at least seriously contend for the playoffs, the trade will have worked. But I think the only way this team contends is to do what this board has been begging them to do - trade any prospect necessary (with the requisite holdback of Anderson) for Brewers, Reds and Rockies. And it will be all or nothing for 16 and 17. And then nothing for a long time. Me, I wish they had continued what they started in 2013 for 2 more years: a sensible build-up of organizational depth. that would have allowed for contention for years to come, starting in 17.
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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) Profile: RHP Cody Sedlock Also FYI, we now have a pinned Draft Week thread in PHT. Then on Thursday we'll pin the Day 1 thread in there with link to the Draft Tracker, as usual. One of those funky delivery guys. Doesn't seem like a #10.
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QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) Starting pitching NEEDED help. No question. Shields could be the third least meltdown prone pitcher on the current staff. At worst he's fourth. That fills a need. When your credential is not melting down, that's just not enough for a championship team. And as it is, his Seattle meltdown was a lot worse than any Sox starter has put up this year (except maybe for Danks - I try to forget). Now if he can settle down to a dependable 3/4: 7 innings, giving up 3 runs, than fine. Hope he does.
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QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) In other words another organization's version of Ventura. He can't manage that team anymore, they want him out, etc. What other organizations have a manager who had never coached or managed an inning at any professional level and had been out of baseball for a decade before named manger? We night hire a retread, but people learn from their experiences.... but you need that depth of experience from which to learn.