GreenSox

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) You can't do both? Are people actually wanting Robin to stay because: A) He's a good manager B) Manager doesn't matter, so why change in the middle of a season? C) I take the side of management no matter what, so until they make the move, I support their decisions. D) It's mostly unlikely they make a change, so I'll take that side because it's the "winning" side. E) The front office, primarily the top of the front office, is the problem in this organization. I don't think he's a good manager, but I'm indifferent re firing him at this point.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) That is half an inning more, and it will go up once he isn't pinch hit for in the American League. You can see that pretty clearly in his pitches per start numbers and his IP/Start in the NL vs AL. We'll see. If he performs as you suggest AND the Sox at least seriously contend for the playoffs, the trade will have worked. But I think the only way this team contends is to do what this board has been begging them to do - trade any prospect necessary (with the requisite holdback of Anderson) for Brewers, Reds and Rockies. And it will be all or nothing for 16 and 17. And then nothing for a long time. Me, I wish they had continued what they started in 2013 for 2 more years: a sensible build-up of organizational depth. that would have allowed for contention for years to come, starting in 17.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) Profile: RHP Cody Sedlock Also FYI, we now have a pinned Draft Week thread in PHT. Then on Thursday we'll pin the Day 1 thread in there with link to the Draft Tracker, as usual. One of those funky delivery guys. Doesn't seem like a #10.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) Starting pitching NEEDED help. No question. Shields could be the third least meltdown prone pitcher on the current staff. At worst he's fourth. That fills a need. When your credential is not melting down, that's just not enough for a championship team. And as it is, his Seattle meltdown was a lot worse than any Sox starter has put up this year (except maybe for Danks - I try to forget). Now if he can settle down to a dependable 3/4: 7 innings, giving up 3 runs, than fine. Hope he does.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) In other words another organization's version of Ventura. He can't manage that team anymore, they want him out, etc. What other organizations have a manager who had never coached or managed an inning at any professional level and had been out of baseball for a decade before named manger? We night hire a retread, but people learn from their experiences.... but you need that depth of experience from which to learn.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) Cooper has influence on our lineup now? he probably makes a concerted effort not to. That's the point. As you detailed below, Ventura didn't have the credentials for the job (you're finally coming around). What's Cooper's excuse? Cooper has been KW's most trusted and loyal dugout chief. for years He'd be manager now, except that he doesn't have the personality for it. Cooper is one of the reasons that Ventura is manager. Cooper has the organizational power and the brains to shave down some of Ventura's warts, if he chose to. it's always going to be tough to bring in a real professional, experienced manager, when the pitching coach has more org. power.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 08:18 AM) QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 08:18 AM) * They just do NOT have the depth to do so. This organization needs to focus on rebuilding that farm and decvelop the organizational positional depth. We are currently at the crossroads for KW and Robin. It's time for both of them to go for various reasons. I think Hahn can run a successful rebuild ( not being under KWs 'guidance') and he has many assets to trade at the deadline and during the winter if they decide to go this route. Well, I agree and have been posting daily that they need to build this org and then go for the vets. If they had kept on with it in the winter of 2014 and 2015 they'd be better off. But they aren't going to. I used to think that Hahn was good enough...at least there was little evidence to think he wasn't good enough. But when he brought the Dodgers into the Frazier trade and let Thompson go (instead of protecting his best young hitter) I have my doubts. The Frazier trade may have been "fair" for the Sox (probably was, although I wouldn't have done it), but there was surplus value to be had dealing with Jockety, but the Dodgers, not the Sox, got it.

I watched Dunn completely dominate my Green Wave, but he's a stretch at 10. Now, if they sign him below slot and use that to get a first/second round talent in later rounds, then great. But I haven't seen that level of finesse out of Hahn and Williams

QUOTE (Coach @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 07:47 AM) In response to your statement, why is Cooper considered one of the best in baseball then? Good question - why is he? His results don't come close to supporting that level of reverence.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) Free agency looks weak this off season and sox have excess cash so that makes great sense to pick up that contract at $9M per. In a month they can sign another Tatis rather easily Johnson had no value and the padre hope is that the NL and that park is what is needed. I continue to hold out hope for the bullpen. This offense is bad. In the end, the white sox are building for next two years. This will work IF Shields improves to a #3 guy in the rotation. How likely is that when he's a 5 now, 34 and getting worse? Availability of FAs is irrelevant when you acquire a #5. Sure they can sign another Tatis...except that Williams/Hahn are nowheresville on the top international players this year, when they should be all in. they can also draft another Fulmer and Anderson. The idea is to stockpile young talent, which is what winning organizations do. WE'll see about Johnson. he certainly didn't work well with Cooper and Cooper rules the world. Sox are just 2 aces short with Williams/Hahn running the show.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) The way I see it, the White Sox are ran like a country club. A bunch of friends hanging out and win or loss it doesn't matter because they are all making money and having fun together. Robin is a great friend to Kenny and JR loves his former players. Yep

If you want to get the core, Williams and Hahn should be fired....they hired and extended Ventura and Cooper. and they put together this bunch.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) Robin's got to go. Tomorrow is the perfect time. If they don't think he's the issue, then you fire Steverson. Cooper should go before Steverson.

QUOTE (ventura_abreu @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) Why is Rollins being put at DH? Because Ventura and Cooper are managing this operation.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) New Mock: 10. OF Corey Ray 26. SS Gavin Lux 49. SP Alex Speas Thoughts? I'm down with that.

Good move. Gonzalez can strike guys out....this may work out.

Oh heck, just trade away every young player. Saladino is on the next train out of town, then any prospect other than Fulmer and Anderson. Bring in all of those Brewers and Rockies. We can watch home run derby in July. Ventura and Cooper will be on cloud nine with all of the proven veterans and no youth to hassle with. And in a year, there will be a dispersal sale. It didn't have to be this way.

I guess now we see why Williams and Hahn refuse to go all in in the international market.

They'll make more trades. Saladino is probably up next. He looks like a good young player, but that's not good enough reason for Hahn to keep him. They've penciled in Anderson (who could very well turn out like the last Anderson Williams prematurely penciled in). Then any prospect not named Fulmer or Anderson is fair game. And even if it doesn't work out, Ventura and Cooper won't have many immature young players to deal with, so they'll be comfy in Robin's holiday camp.

Let's not forget, Hahn is the genius, who, for some inexplicable reason called in a professional front office - Andrew Friedman and the Dodgers - to get Frazier. Dealing with bad GM like Jockety was a fair fight. But he brings in a top shelf negotiator.

E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world). Tatis is/was the best young international player org I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them. Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper.

Tulane's Jake Rogers is the best defensive catcher in the draft. Should be there in 3rd. Oh, and he just ripped a 2 run jack in the 9th to eliminate Ole Miss from its regional. to you Jake

Oooh, James Shields. He was good 3 years ago. He's a difference maker! I am sure this front office with their talent evaluators weren't dissuaded in the least with Shields' ongoing decline and horrific last out (when facing and AL team). Williams was dominated by other front offices when he made trades, and Hahn is just as inept, if not worse.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 3, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) A good reliever, a good catcher with 1.5 years of control and Ryan Braun in an "elite core"? lolz. When you want to clean out the farm (w/ the requisite Anderson hold-back,of course ) for 3 players, I assume the author must think these fine Brewers are good enough to launch the Sox into the WS at least. QUOTE (Special K @ Jun 3, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) We also know the White Sox organization simply cannot develop a top tier bat. That is also a fact. We do know the Sox can develop pitching. But if we were to do this trade, knowing our luck he'd probably turn into another Gio. Tryace would fit pretty well on this team. Top tier pitching....Sale. But he wasn't exactly "developed" with less than 20 minor league innings and a JC pitcher Q sort of, but he only spent 48 innings in the minors, so I don't know how much development they've done. Rodon a mature college pitcher picked at #3 was rushed and is no better than average. But that's about it...no 4-10th round picks have made much of an impact, e.g. The pitching prospects aren't even helping in the pen. No hitters drafted at #3; overall not enough difference for me to conclude that the Sox are great at one and terrible at the other.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 3, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) Kahnle was a wild card. Cooper hasn't even had a lot of time around him. With that said, the Sox would really benefit from Cooper or Stevetson turning nothing into something to help the talent level on the roster. Cooper is Williams'main man and is consulted on these pick ups and he hasn't fixed a thing in ages. He had Kahnle all spring. Hahn gave up an interesting prospect for him, too. And Cooper didn't get off of his duff to go talk to him either. I wish they would give Steverson someone new from Charlotte to work with.