GreenSox

Drafting insiders in the 30s (as well as other prospects they know they have zero chance of signing) probably won't hurt much, but it's indicative of the culture of this org. Keeping the family happy remains way too high a priority. And they just aren't all-in in building the org. As for KW Jr., who the Sox drafted twice (a courtesy pick in the mid 30s out of high school) , that trickles down. Ozzie went on one of his public rants when his son (not sure which -Ozney or Olney) was drafted later than he would have liked and didn't receive the sweetheart bonus that Jr did. Even with that, I don't think anything tops Ron Scheuler drafting his daughter.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 08:37 AM) Of course, the Peavy deal (contract extension) was not exactly met with universal praise, either. Seemed a bit ill-advised, like the club didn't have a clear direction. Same thing with the time when they extended Danks and turned around and traded their closer for scraps simultaneously. Still amazed that we got anything out of Peavy. He got a ML ready top prospect plus 3 low level minor leaguers. Opinions varied at the time of the quality of Garcia (he had plate discipline issues as a prospect) but the on paper return was pretty solid. Peavy was having a solid year with a 1.13 WHIP and K rate in excess of 8 per 9. He was dealt to a contender that needed another starter to close out the regular season. Hahn took advantage of the opportunity. Which is why I'm so stunned he reversed course in 2014 despite the progress being made. I guess it was this contrived/bogus/fictitious 3 year window Williams started yakking about. I suspected then and still suspect it was rushed in response to the Cubs; after all, the core was signed for another 5-6 years when Williams started talking "3 year window."

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2016 -> 06:02 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...625-column.html Paul Sullivan one of the first local Chicago media members to turn the accusing finger at Hahn. About time. Hahn has been making the precise opposite moves that winning teams make: acquiring the old players that winners sell-off for ML ready prospects. And when he did dump, they were Williams-like giveaways (except for Peavy).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 26, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Didn't go well for Danish Nor for the offense: shut out by Lucas Harrell. Yikes.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 26, 2016 -> 05:56 PM) Those are all bottom of the order hitters on a winning team. Saladino at this point is more of a utility player. Anderson looks good but will get exposed eventually if he doesn't improve his plate discipline. Agree on Anderson. But the floor is high - he'll be Alexei if he doesn't develop plate discipline. Those guys are bottom level hitters on a winning team...but a lot better than our bottom level hitters. It's a dubious proposition to trade those guys when your replace them with sub .700 hitters. And as it is, the Rangers and Indians only have a few guys each exceeding .800 OPS. They are an important part. Sox just need more depth. Yes, the Eaton trade was excellent. I think Arizona has the best farm system in baseball. They churn out talent year after year...they make a lot of bad trades, but they still have a lot of young talent.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 26, 2016 -> 09:56 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 At least look up the stats and metrics before you post garbage. Norris is also a top 5 pitch framer in the league. Fair enough. He's gotten better with San Diego. He was terrible with Oakland. Avilia is a decent defensive catcher anyway, and the position is nowhere near the greatest need. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 25, 2016 -> 05:13 PM) Surely, Rick Hahn could have picked from ONE of those names. They did - they got Frazier. They got Jackson, who wasn't that different than several on the low-end of your list. 3 B prospects will get a lot of the names on that list...still will. 3 Bs got Frazier. Sox just are just short on Bs

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 25, 2016 -> 12:02 AM) Both on bad teams, both in positions of need, both massive upgrades over what we have. The team is back to playing good ball, but they are paper thin right now. The bullpen needs work, but I think Burdi is up sooner than later. I really think they need to address C and DH ASAP. Avila is coming around but Navarro has been brutal. Would Norris even cost that much? The years of control might make him a little more expensive, but he's not lighting the world on fire. His defense would be a huge boost though and I think his SLG would look good at the Cell. Avilia is not a bad catcher. Norris is a terrible defensive catcher. Defensively both Sox catchers are playing exactly as advertised. If that's not good enough, why did Hahn sign them? The position of need is starting pitching, centerfield and DH. Morneau might help DH. Jackson would help the defense immeasurably if he recovers. Sox have to show a lot more in the W/L and spot in standings for more trades for "proven veterans" to make any sense.

Thompson's numbers probably will fall into his minor league form - mid .700 OPS and play excellent defense. Now will Frazier exceed that? Probably, but for 2 years. Decent move if you are a contender. Re development, this idea that the Sox can develop pitching...well, it sure would be nice to see it. Sure they have Rodon, but he was also the #3 pick. The biggest weakness is on the major league team is starting pitching - only 3 ML starters on the staff. On the other hand, the Sox have produced Trayce, Semien, Saladino, in the last 3 years; all will have some role on a major league team. Anderson looks like a player (and if he would take some pitches/walks he could be a star player). The Sox can't even fill a bullpen spot comfortably from the minors (I have some hope for Beck).

They decided to put on a clown act today. Redsox must have scored 6 runs on junk.

Good job Ventura handling the pen last night. Used the experienced guys for the high leverage, but earlier, innings. Used the rookie to pitch a clean, but later inning. And that last pitch from Ynoa, which had become a leverage spot, was a bullseye square to his target.

This is like the 6th "stuff no command" high minor reliever the Sox have picked up in the last 6 months (Kahnle, Lamb, etc). If one can be fixed, that will help. Ynoa is also one of those types- might be a keeper.....he threw that one bad pitch last night but no harm in the end.

This is the kind of game we saw in April Great job by the pen.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:32 PM) We'll trade Saladino for Jay Bruce or something and Saladino will go on to be a solid starter for years. I certainly expect them to trade him. To Hahn/Ventura and the rest, OPS .700 from a vet >>>>>> OPS .650 from a young player with room to grow. And trading for Bruce is just the kind of fool move I expect Hahn to make. Not sure what kind of player he'll be, but I've liked what I've seen. To sit him like this amongst this team of stiffs is just ridiculous. I see Colton Wong is now playing CF. That's a concept that's just beyond the grasp of the White Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Giving him facts is a complete waste of time. It is like talking to a Trump voter. That you think the last 2 drafts have been good is an opinion, not a fact. How's Fulmer looking, in your opinion? We're investing internationally? The Cubs, RedSox etc invest. I believe Hahn himself said that he's paying a whopping one big bonus. That's not an investment - that's doing the minimum. But you asked for facts: 4 players for 1 season of Shark A top 100, a CF who raked (possible NL rookie of year) and another prospect for 2 years of Frazier. Hopefully Frazier can hit .220 Two pitching prospects for sub .700 OPS Lawrie (despite having promising youths Sanchez and Saladino on the roster). Signed Keppinger, Latos, Rollins, and Bonificaio ($3 mill!!!!) all of whom had to be DFAd. Also signed Beckham for $2 million Gave De Aza and Thornton away for nothing; both had productive years left. Traded Rios for Leury Garcia; Rios helped the Royals win he Worlds Series. Signed Adam Laroche. Horrible, then put on a clownact, and Hahn's boss had to step in and fix the clubhouse. Signed Albers, and Duke, both of whom have been mediocre Robertson has done his job. Signed Melky Cabrera - okay this year, terrible last year; can't play defense Kept Ventura and Cooper around Traded for Shields 63, 73, and 76 wins under his leadership. 1 post-season in a decade from he and Williams. Facts Of course, before most of that, he got Eaton and Abreu. Then he decided that declining veterans were the better use of resources.

Renaudo needs some Ks in AAA to suggest he'll get anyone out in the majors.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 09:13 AM) Johnson should have an advantage being able to go to the NL and to pitch in one of the most pitcher friendly stadiums in the league. If he doesnt see any success in San Diego he just isnt ever going to. I agree. That park should minimize his weaknesses, if he can otherwise pitch well. But it hasn't so far. Of course that's the park where Shields was pitching as well....

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 07:00 AM) Hopefully there's some great 19/20/21 year olds theys plan on signing. Some of that may make an impact a little quicker than the 16 year olds. Long term investment. Apparently there is a flood of international guys finally hitting Arizona. Might hear from some of them in 2-3 years. But once you get that pipeline flowing, Sox should have several at each level and should substantially strengthen the farm.

Looks like a good pickup.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:29 AM) Johnson s*** the bed every time he came up. That isnt on Cooper, thats on Johnson. Dude has given up 10 homeruns in 4 starts this season. But please, continue on with your extended whine. Like I said, we'll see which pitcher out-performs which. It's a fair test. Probably both will stink. Which of course, would be a big negative for the Sox (and still a positive for the Padres). Of course, if Shields can pitch like a 3, then it's a big win for the Sox. Work thy magic, Cooper.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 02:20 AM) I agree we should trade Q. The Sox simply cannot score runs for him, so be merciful and trade him for 4 very good prospects. It's not working out cause the Sox won't play ball the days he pitches. They just won't. My guess is that the return from Sale v. the value of sale would exceed the return for Q v. the value of Q.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Everyone is exhausted talking about Ventura...and this whole Shields debacle (so far) has almost forced everyone to start looking up higher on the food chain. JR is the only one who knows who was the biggest advocate and pushed the hardest for Shields. Maybe KW, maybe Hahn...I doubt it was 50/50 an equal presentation from both execs when they made that pitch to JR. Well we know what KW's strategy was: this. And what we're seeing from Hahn since 2014 differs very little from the Williams approach. Now Hahn's first year differed significantly when he doubled the young core, but that came to an abrupt halt when he traded 4 prospects off of a mighty 73 win team to rent Samardjija. . Since 2014, Hahn has been relentless in his pursuit of veterans. Hahn's early work has now been subsumed in the subsequent 3 years of a GM clownshow. Both need to go.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) Especially with their offensive struggles the first two games and then Q tonight....they'll be like sharks sensing blood in the water across an entire ocean and going into predator/cruise control attack mode. Erik Johnson today, Shields goes tomorrow. "Almost all of his hits were with two strikes," Padres manager Andy Green said. "I think it's a little bit of a function of he's working predominantly one side of the plate." Johnson and Green saw some progress. "Compared to my last outing, I'm definitely taking more than a few steps forward," Johnson said. "I had a feel for all four of my pitches. I used them well, just a few balls left the yard. "For me, it's just putting myself in situations where I've got to stay away from that." Read more here: http://www.sunherald.com/sports/article843...l#storylink=cpy Well, we'll see. Cooper wanted nothing to do with Johnson. He's pleased with Shields' side sessions. We'll see which pitcher under which coach gets better. We'll see if Cooper still has the magic (that is continuously touted but hasn't been apparent in a decade). Now Cooper didn't make the trade - that was Rick Hahn. So Shields needs to be a lot better for it to make sense and to be a rare positive in the Hahn ledger.

Although they'll never do it with they need to do is cut down the regular season , and add some legitimate playoffs series instead of the bogus one game wild card games. 5 game playoffs are pretty ridiculous as well. Actually they could do it. Expand the roster the 28 and schedule some twinbills. Sox could go on one of those "false hope" runs. They don't play the Tigers Royals or Indians until the end of next month.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) I was just thinking about why Hahn gets SO MUCH credit for the Eaton, Sale, Q and Abreu (this isn't as good, starting next year) contracts. Why do we have the assumption that nobody else could have done the same? That you have to have a law or business degree to pull it off? Then I thought about the Indians and looked at their payroll. Still well under $100 million, despite the Swisher/Bourn/C.Johnson debacles. Carlos Santana 5 years/$21 million 2017 option Michael Brantley 4 years/$25 million 2018 option Jason Kipnis 6 years/$52.5 million 2020 option Corey Kluber 5 years/$38.5 million 2020/21 options Carlos Carrasco 4 years/$22 million 2019/20 options Yan Gomes 6 years/$23 million 2020/21 options Josh Tomlin 2 years/$5.5 million 2018 option That's not even considering future extensions for Lindor, Jose Ramirez, Salazar (top five pitcher in the AL now) and possibly Trevor Bauer, if he's not traded. That's what is called a young core, and all locked up under favorable contract conditions. You can quibble about Brantley's injury history, and Gomes also hasn't gotten back to his 2014 form, but WOW. It's that number of players that stands out. Cleveland has a core of 8-10. Rick Hahn started trading for short-term and otherwise mediocre veterans when he had a core of 4. That shows how overmatched Hahn is as a major league GM (and I'm sure he's hand-in-hand with Williams in refusing to build a core).

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) That leaves you without a viable infielder on the bench. If the Sox would stop carrying 5 OF's I'd agree that would be a logical thing to pull. Well, there's no reason Lawrie can't sit once or twice a week; he's the extra infielder when he does. Neither Coats nor Shuck can hit and neither is particularly good defensively. Heck bring up Leury...he's hitting well in AAA, and Coats (.294 OPS)/Schuck (.496 OPS) are hitting at about what Leury hit in his ML stint. Leury can play IF and OF. If Rick Hahn GMd the Giants, he'd have jettisoned Brandon Crawford years ago in favor of a proven .690 OPS veteran infielder.