GreenSox

The plan is to add veterans that they think are good and try to win. Willing to trade any prospect except two or three. Trouble is the ones they traded last couple years are likely better than any they didn't trade. The other problem is that the veterans they pick are always averageish or worse Then there is a pesky issue of near impossibility to win by loading up on veterans without a young core. Sox had a young core of exactly 4 players which doesn't cut it.

Ventura is a symptom of a stodgy, mediocre front office that lacks creativity, finesse and sorely lacks talent evaluation skills. Not point in moving Ventura if Rick Hahn is still GM; and probably no reason to move Hahn without moving Williams out.

Is it normal to use most of picks 30-40 for they know that they won't sign? I'm sure Hahn will rush Burdi up if it's possible.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 03:09 AM) Shields' has life, he actually has stuff. I hope you're right about that. Because if you are, they should be able to correct his issues, given his long history of solid pitching.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) Can anyone summarize for us that dont have Insider access? This is probably going to be fantastic and informative http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/sto...ck-campaign-mlb He didn't blame Cooper. Said he got off to a bad start, starting changing things, which, in the majors, can make things worse when you do it during the season. Had some mechanical issues that he straightened up in offseason. Said Cutter, rather than culprit, is important pitch for him. but he didn't throw it inside enough. Of most interest, perhaps, to the Sox, is that the article also pointed out that the Sox were last in majors in number of fastballs thrown on inner half of plate.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 08:57 AM) I get what you are saying. Semien and Trayce are probably both better than people thought. Maybe it speaks to the teams' development being better overall though. The problem with the White Sox system is that they are so weak in that 6-15 range. They don't want to trade their top guys which is understandable. Most teams trade from the back of their top 10 but the White Sox don't have those guys to deal. So they end up dealing guys like Trayce, Montas, and Semien who have had some big league success. I'd trade Trayce Thompson, Micah, and Montas still for Frazier but I get where you are coming from. We just disagree. If the Sox had won, say, 84 games last year, but with a huge 3B void, then I could understand it. But it made no sense to me for a 76 win team (actually worse per run differential) to trade the only CF on the roster, esp considering the org is so short on quality outfielders (Eaton showed last year that he's below par in CF; but the great thing is that he's shown this year that he's above par in RF). They filled one hole to create another. Players blossoming after so-so minor league careers isn't that unusual (Saladino will be the next, imo). The HR total is a surprise, but the Sox knew Semien could hit (they had some MI depth in the minors). They thought Trayce was a fluke, I suppose, but the D alone should have been good enough. The other factor is, I believe, that the Sox farm, while still substandard, is improving. The FO approach to drafting finally got serious 5-6 years ago. Some second tier players are going to push through when you draft well. Sox seem to be caught unaware of their own improvement.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jun 16, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) There's a pretty hot topic on the site about firing Robin Ventura today. And elsewhere there are the usual rantings about dumping Avisail Garcia. It's pretty easy to support these ideas. The problem is, those kinds of moves will not likely solve the Sox' ills. What is needed, instead, is for the "good" players on the Sox to play much better than they have. Jose Abreu. 9 HR, .422 slugging percentage. 0.6 OWAR. Todd Frazier. .205 BA. 19 HR, but only .464 slugging percentage. Brett Lawrie. .397 slugging percentage, under .700 OPS. Dioner Navarro. Hitting worse than Flowers did last year. Worst framer in baseball. Carlos Rodon. 4.28 ERA, 1.5 WHIP. James Shields. Somehow much worse than Danks or Latos or anyone else in his first two outings. David Robertson. Blew 7-1 9th inning lead against the Royals. Nate Jones. Blew 3 run lead the next night against the Royals. Let's go down the list Abreu, can and will improve Frazier. Possible he could improve, but he had a horrid 2nd half last year, which was utterly ignored/glossed over in the pursuit of his greatness. Basically what you see is what you get with Frazier. Lawrie - Not much room for improvement He's never been a good hitter. He's basically adequate. Rick Hahn preferred "Adequate" to "currently inadequate but with potential", a decided organizational philosophy, so he acquired him. Saladino is a better player than Lawrie (and Avi and Shuck) but the Sox are the Sox and Saladino is on the bench.** Navarro - he can hit better; probably will. He's always sucked as a catcher. Rodon - Rodon was rushed for no reason, other than Williams/Hahn howling at the moon last summer that "we're in it." He should improve, but another few months in Charlotte would have helped. Robertson and JOnes are doing their jobs...they aren't elite and never have been. So out of these, Abreu and Navarro will hit better; Frazier might; and you'll see steady improvement out of Rodon. The .500 record is an accurate reflection of the talent level on this team. **Entering 2015, Charlotte had a crowded infield of ML ready players. And yet Hann and Williams STILL went out and acquired 2 veteran utility infielders. Anyone who can't see the decided bias in this org toward veterans, regardless of skill level, has their head in the sand.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) Do you see anyone who the White Sox have the pieces to obtain that meets your qualification/standards? Probably no one. That's why you build, and not trade away possible/probable rookies of the year for good, not great players. You make savvy trades...you don't force them like Rick Hahn does. This business of falling in love with every NL hitter who smiles at Hahn/Williams is for the birds. It's what put us in this position and keeps us in the position. BTW, one element of the Sox early on that was credited for the big improvement was the defense. That element, apparently, isn't important anymore.

Breakout or fluke? Padres trying to trade him at what they think is peak value. Smart move especially for a team that wont win for a few years. Sox need an outfielder who also plays plus D anyway if they are going to give up prospects.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 04:53 PM) Bourgeois has actual mlb experience. Coats is still searching for his first hit Terrible major league experience. For that reason, I expect him up next.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) Seems like we seen this before. Has one good game and everyone wants hit to keep playing then we see him what he truly is as a utility player and not everyday I've heard this before, too. No good. Nothing but a utility player. Wasn't drafted in the first two rounds and didn't rake in the minors, so he stinks (lucky for the SF Giants, they don't share that philosophy or they would have dumped 1/2 their infield 2 years ago). Meanwhile Trayce "fourth outfielder" Thompson rakes and Semien has 12 homers while Hahn pines away for more "veteran help". The reality is that Saladino has steadily improved over the last 2 seasons. Why not let him play? As for Frazier, he hasn't had a multi-hit game since May 23!!!

Wouldn't have minded seeing Saladino back in lineup after 2 hit and home run night.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 04:05 PM) Coats has more upside than Bourgeois will ever have. Agree

Michael Ynoa was Rule 5 eligible and your basic top prospect flop when the Sox acquired him. He had no trade value. The Sox have amassed relievers like this over the years. They acquired 3 or so this offseason alone. They have fixed a couple over the years ....hopefully Ynoa is #3. But he was no prized piece in the sense that he had trade value when acquired. Semien has 12 homers this year. Hopefully Ynoa and #26 come through.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 09:04 AM) Just like Latos this year --- he wasn't going to keep it up. James Shields won't be this bad all year. He won't be great. But he is an okay #4 and good #5. Or maybe he is "just like Latos" this year...started off okay, but couldn't keep it up. I hope he is tipping his pitches. I hope Cooper can fix him. Cooper actually fixing something would be a cool breeze after the last 5 years.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) The more this team tries to add, the more we find that staying put would have done the same thing. If not more.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) Where are both of them now? They had flash in the pan seasons in SD and now they both are just journeyman pitchers. Erik Johnson isnt gonna make us regret trading him But James Shields will likely make us regret trading for James Shields and his 2.5 year encumbrance. Erik Johnson won't be a top of the rotation guy, nor probably a mid., but he can provide competent back-end performance. Sox will be lucky if Shields provides that Sox seem to find little value in back end young pitchers or position players their eagle-eyes for talent deem "utility"...yet they repeatedly trade or otherwise acquire veterans who can't even provide that.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 11:11 PM) User Actions Following Dan HayesVerified account ‏@CSNHayes Dating back to May 23, Todd Frazier is 8-for-69 (.116). May 23 is the last time Frazier had a multi hit game

Saladino has done nothing but play his ass off for the Sox and is improving. No clown shows from him. He should play every day. Better odds though of Sox dumping him as part of a "package that won't hurt our future" for yet another decliner.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) Why would you DH your second best defensive player Because he's going to be on the bench most nights anyway.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) But his defense is too good to stick at DH and he is the defensive replacement for everyone in the infield. You can't DH that Well, when he isn't subbing, which will be most nights, he can DH.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 09:02 PM) Can Saladino play right field? I'd love to get him some more at bats. Right field? Why not. Smart, can move, plays hard and I think he'll hit fine for an IF. (which is good enough for OF on this team).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:55 PM) Fulmer could be up in July... I wouldn't mind it if he keeps pitching like this If he can be, I'm sure he will be. But for what purpose, I have no idea. Don't really know why Hahn rushed Rodon last year.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) 5 runs in the 5th would be cool. A 10 game winning streak is right around the corner.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) Fulmer pitching very well again tonight. The last thing the Sox need to do is to rush him up for this sorry bunch. But Hahn showing signs of desperation.