GreenSox

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 10:04 PM) Unbelievable...... KW's drafts were ripped for years for taking the safe high floor guys, before they shifted focus. Now they go back to it and he's ripped again. I think it's JR's administrative assistant again making picks. I think the problem with KW's high floor/low ceiling drafting is that it was coupled with reaching (probably due to no fixed slot system).

Collins looks like he has an advanced hit tool. Excited to see what Sox can do with him. Hitter development has gotten an unfair rap. It's improving. Hahn's ongoing mis-evaluation of hitting talent partly to blame for bad rap. Not impressed w/ drafting likely bullpen pitchers that high. If he can start, super. Ability to help this year not important imo either (unless they really are low ceiling guys, and then you take what you can get). I trust they aren't low ceiling.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 07:45 AM) Recap posted. Engel looking much better. That week or 2 in A ball seemed to energize him. Been a different player since.

At this point the Sox just have to let it ride. Certainly Hahn shouldn't make any more trades for veterans. But I don't want he and Williams to divest because they can't take an objective look at it. If the Sox need to divest of these players, fresh management team needs to do it. Hahn can make some small moves to move middle relievers or dead veterans at the deadline if they can get something but any decision on the big dogs has to come from fresh management.

I notice no Gonzalez. Is he starting a game soon?

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 09:17 PM) There is no way that the Sox burn this down and start selling pieces. They are in the second year of some sort of three year plan. Selling now would just be an admission that Williams and Hahn are utter failures without a clue. This.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 09:08 PM) Tatis was neither highly rated internationally (#27 in his class in one rating, unrated in another) nor highly rated with the White Sox (not in the FS top 30) #27 is not highly rated. No good. Okay. Now back to the thread. If #27 is no good, and the Sox aren't on any top 30s, what does that say about the Williams/Hahn effort on the international front this year?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) What the f*** are you even talking about? To answer your question, I was referring the Shields trade...dumping one of the highest rated international players for, well, 34 year old Shields. Doesn't indicate a high value on organization to me.

Look the CW on this board is clearly in support of hyper acquisition of veteran players (as long as they don't trade Anderson to get them). So be it, but I continue to hope Williams/Hahn rethink their philosophy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 07:51 PM) Guessing Navarro Shields is going a good imitation of him...c. 1999

I'd like to read the scouting report of Shields v Seattle in which Sox scouts, from which professional talent evaluators Williams and Hahn determined that that outing was a mere blip.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 07:41 PM) f*** it....let's just see what he does in his next start Let's see what he does the rest of the game. Hold them to 4 and it's not a debacle.

While the organizational philosophy under Hahn is basically what it was under Williams, and maybe Williams picked Shields to go obtain (he has all the demographics that williams loves) but it appears that Hahn is executing the trades, and they haven't been overly impressive. Only wishcasters and alchemists could possibly be surprised by the first inning.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) In addition to his .914OPS, he has a .3 WAR. That's replacement level. How is that? His defense is atrocious. He is exactly the type of player who needs to come over and slide into a DH role and stay far away from the OF. Fine, but pay the PRICE of a .3 WAR. There is zero, absolutely zero chance that Williams/Hahn pay a .3 WAR price for him.

A good start by Shields would be a cool breeze.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) What the f*** are you even talking about? You literally b**** now without even providing any context to what it is you're upset about. If you're going to pollute every thread with your non-stop whining, can you least put forth some specifics so it can generate some discussion. I put forth plenty of specifics. Some posters simply deny them, and put forth daft and profane posts like yours. The context here is clear: the Sox are not making a major investment in the international market, it seems to be less an effort than usual (not in on any top 30s) when the usual efforts haven't been "all in", and this is a year in which it would behoove them to do so, and with the Laroche situation, they have some resources. As for whining, the definition of whining is whether one agrees with conventional wisdom (not whining) or disagrees (whining). It's all about who/what one whines about.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 06:00 PM) Actually anyone can do that. After you hit reply just go in and make any changes. After 12 years here you should know that by now! Yes you're right.

Isn't that cute. Using your admin privileges like that. You showed me!!

yes, Jay bruce is the difference maker. Keep throwing good money after bad, Kenny Hahn. And please don't mention the name Anderson (or Fulmer, or Adams) in the same sentence with Bruce. I know there is a high reverence for a year or 2 of low OBP NL sluggers, but that would be ridiculous.

Thus the need for a strong organization; a foundation of young players first if you want to win. Pin this Balta post please.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) They do develop pitchers, which is what keeps them in business. There will always be a market for pitchers. Sale but he was a first round draft choice. Rodon was "can't miss".... And.....? A few here and there, most of whom they traded. Maybe you can count Q but he pitched like 50 minor league innings. I'm not convinced that they're so much better at pitchers than hitters, especially recently. the top prospect is a hitter. Trayce was a hitter. Semien can hit. Saladino, imo, will hit pretty well for an IF. Who's #2 in Charlotte behind Anderson? Delmonico? Hitter. I think they're getting okay with hitters. But it takes some time.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) Since 2000, the KW reign only 2 teams have more World Series wins than the White Sox. Boston has 3 and SF 2. There are 7 others that have won 1 like the White sox. So in this timeframe they are better than 20 teams and equal to 7. Now you can say that it is time to move on and change things, which I wouldn't disagree with. However, you can't say that under KW they have done nothing and he wasn't an effective GM. he has a ring; I never said he never was (although I think others were better). I said he isn't now. And it's not because of lack of skills. His methods will work if you have a strong foundation (Dombrowski does what he does; so does Brian Sabean, although Sabean has toned it down a lot under their GM). But those teams have much stronger org. foundations that I believe KW has put insufficient attention into rebuilding. Brandon Crawford was never super in the minors; he certainly wasn't super in the majors for 3 years...but they stuck with him. Around here, he'd have been put in the utility infielder dustbin. I thought they were making progress in 2013, and they stopped.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:21 PM) That should show you how much a "stocked farm system" promises you as a MLB team. Or how the stocked farm was managed - and whatever it was, it wasn't restocked well. He inherited a winning MLB team as well. Look, prove me wrong. Load up with proven veterans and actually win. They just keep doing the same things that haven't worked. And they don't do the things that seem to work at the winning organizations. So yes, when they keep doing the same thing and getting the same inadequate results, I'm looking for a change in course.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) Just because you brought it up. How many World Series wins and playoff appearances did the White Sox have under his predecessors? None, but 2 playoffs in 16 seasons after inheriting a stocked farm and MLB team with at least a league average salary structure are lackluster results. QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) Honest question - its obvious you have so much hatred for the White Sox - why don't you just give up caring, or find another team to cheer on? Again, honest question - no sport/hobby should make you as miserable as you appear to be towards the Sox, so why spend so much time loathing over it? I disagree with how 2 employees - Williams and Hahn - manage the White Sox. They are assuredly NOT the White Sox

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) This is the team you root for though. This is what they do. They are going for it. They are going for it next year. They aren't rebuilding. I wish they would spend $25-$30 million in the international market but they just don't do it. How did they deplete their system with this move? I'd argue that they could trade Shields in 2 months and acquire more than they gave up. That's what the team under Kenny Williams does. That's not what happened under his 2 predecessors. Yes, they could flip Shields for more than they paid if he pitches better than he has. But, to paraphrase, that's not what they do.