GreenSox

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:44 PM) I have thought Ethier is a pretty solid fit for most of the offseason. He's not a fit defensively.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 6m6 minutes ago Tim Anderson is excited to work w/ Jimmy Rollins. Watched him all time. Said Rick Hahn spoke to him about taking advantage of opp. Implicit benefits like this are the best value I see from this, presuming Rollins is generous with his knowledge and time. He was a darn good SS for a long time. I guess Rollins could be good again...he only had 1 bad year, although it was last year and he was 37.

versus what, Dick? Bruce's OBPs of .281 and .291 the last 2 years playing in a NL bandbox? He hits like Chris Carter. I remember your response when I suggested the Sox pick him up ( at 1/6 of the salary and zero acquisition cost). Yea, Saunders got hurt in 2014. He hit well before the injury and he hit well the month after the injury. But by all means, let 36 ABs in 2015 trump that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 11:25 PM) IMO, Rollins is in the drivers seat. By a mile. The preference toward veterans + Saladino can cover more positions skillfully as a utility infielder than Sanchez.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) I don't want Bruce, but exactly how would he be buying high? It is pretty funny you would like Saunders in a post you complain about OBP considering his career OBP is .301. I've come to the conclusion you like players based on salary. The lower the better. JR might have is eye on you. 2012 - .306 2013 - .323 2014- .341 2015 - injured Notice the trend? Come on, even you can see it. And on an AL team that played in a pitchers' park (v. an NL bandbox) as well. Young players do improve. And believe me, I know it goes against the conventional wisdom on here and in the Sox org. to suggest that. Love of decliners is a security blanket. "Don't blame us; we picked up a player who was good once. Who could have known he was out of gas? Not our fault." So much easier than giving young players a chance and risking they fail. And bad veterans has been such a bountiful strategy.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) Frazier and Lawrie aren't bad defenders though. Not as good as Sanchez and Saladino but I'll take the slightly worse defense for way better offense. The bad defense isn't why the White Sox were horrible last year. It was having an all time bad offense. That's true. But the idea is not to be "not bad" but to be good. And the failure to upgrade the OF defense (and actually downgraded it as they had a good defender there for a month) could prevent to the Sox from being good. And that's why I like the idea of Jackson. He will improve the OF defense and I think that if they use him appropriately they could get enough out of him offensively.

Bruce is a marginal upgrade from AVI IF both repeat their last 2 seasons. Bruce hasn't had an OBP over .300 in the last 2 years. How much more of that kind of hitting do the Sox need? Bruce is worth a middle reliever, I guess. But that's about it. People constantly want to sell low and buy high, which is what dumping Avi would be. Much rather the Saunders side of that deal anyway, if he were healthy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) Everyone would have us as the favorite with Upton in the outfield. That said, we were the big winners last year at this point, too. More than likely, the 2014-15 offseason and the repercussions of carrying Danks, Cabrera and LaRoche has forced the front office into a more "year by year," risk-averse position. I guess, but Danks and Laroche are off the books after this year, and Melky after next year. In the realm of leverage risks, that's pretty darn light.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) The few players who fit that description likely aren't available. The closest/easiest thing you'll find to that is JB Shuck. Shuck is a 4th/5th OF, defensive replacement, once a week starter type. He just doesn't hit well enough against either side pitching to use as a platooner. It wouldn't surprise me to see Avi get to the .730 OPS range this season. He still has a pretty good walk rate (esp for this organization) and that might help him stabilize this year some. Still don't know why he gets beat on so badly (esp considering the $42 mill "professional hitter" was almost as bad).

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 02:17 AM) i don't mean to jump in here, but for me, the signing is to reinforce the idea of making a trade in the future with a pen pitchers being included in a pkg or maybe insurance for the pen. Of course you can jump in - it's a message board. The thing about a trade is that you can't trade until you're sure you have the replacement "fixed". And even then, you won't know they are fixed for sure until they see, say a month of pitching in the regular season. And the Sox have no one in the pen particularly valuable who is tradeable. What would, say, Jennings bring if we had a replacement for him? I don't buy the trade thing...Sox just don't think that far ahead and rarely have the guts to pull the trigger on dumping a starter on the major league roster.

Rollins had a .2 WAR last year. Saladino had a .2 WAR last year. But suddenly the SS hole is filled. But by all means, let's go with the 37 year old, instead of the 2nd year player. He's "proven".

Kenny Williams loves his declining and washed up veterans and the org is scared to high heaven of playing young position players.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 21, 2016 -> 10:53 AM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m15 minutes ago Scottsdale, AZ Davidson on Frazier deal: "I totally get it. I’ve struggled really bad. I haven’t been happy with my performance at all.", Okay But what does Mike Olt think about it?

Jackson can play all 3 outfield spots. he also gives the Sox the ability to hide Laroche from left handed pitching. I guess they want to see what they have with Sands and a couple of others.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) A potential fit is Coghlan if the Cubs end up bringing back Fowler. And thus another reason why the Cubs aren't bringing back Fowler. They don't need him. Cubs got really fortunate on that Coghlan reclamation project. Sox could use one of those..maybe an internal reclamation from Avi or someone.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) In both cases, you traded away potential but unproven 2017-2019 guys for more 2016-2017, more likely to succeed help. Not saying I agree with either choice, just that's what I think they were going for. I understand that. There is just no room in the pen for them right now. So they are likely depth, which is helpful. After they made the moves they still signed Albers. I supposed one of the incumbents could be traded, but none are the lock-down type who is likely to net much (outside of Robertson who won't be traded).

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) The Rays and Astros appear to make the best trade partners for the Sox. Not sure what Houston still needs but the Rays were rumored to be seeking a bullpen arm Like that idea.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) I'm going to get myself in trouble for this I'm sure, but what starting pitching depth? Outside of the top guys, it's pretty weak in terms of pitching. Most of the pitchers in the top 30 project as relievers IMO. Sox lost some depth in the offseason. They cleared out a 2 pitchers for Lawrie; then they traded Myles Jahe and Almonte for 2 relief pitchers; not sure what the idea behind the Jahe and Almonte trades were, unless they just needed room for fresher prospects. Neither bullpen acquisition figures to make the 25.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 20, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) Over the last two seasons: Player A: .261/.358/.401/.759 Player B: .266/.348/.393/.741 Player A is Dexter Fowler, Player B is Brandon Guyer. Rays have Morrison/Pearce/Pena/Dickerson/Kiermaier/Jennings/Mahtook/Souza Jr./Jennings/Guyer for DH, 1B and the three outfield spots. That's ten guys for five spots. They have to move a few guys. Guyer gives the Sox a pre-arb outfielder who can play good defense at all positions. He's a luxury as a 4th outfielder and a strong insurance option for Avi. He's a grinder too, hah. Guyer looks like an interesting idea. He's yet another late bloomer (didn't do a thing until 28) for throngs who say it rarely happens.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 09:20 AM) BA ranked the Sox farm at #23 and the Arizona farm at #22. The Diamondbacks have developed some good players recently but their farm was definitely not deep enough or strong enough to trade away Swanson and Blair without hurting their future. Again I clearly said that the trade was a woeful overpay. Interesting you mention the comparative farm system rankings. In 2015, Law ranked Arizona 14, and now they are 24. In 2015, Law ranked Sox 12, and now they are 22. (yes, #1 prospect promoted; but Arizona made other stupid movies beyond the Miller trade, like giving away #4 prospect to braves in mid-season)

Neither Cargo nor Ethier help a wretched OF defense and both would be ridiculous in CF, so hopefully that will save the Sox from pursuit of those 2.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) They gave up the number one overall pick of last years draft. I mean, that in itself is just awful, and absolutely hurts their future. They didnt even have the guy in their system for a season I could only imagine what you would be saying if the Sox did somethign similar with Fulmer and whatever would be the equivalent of Inciarte. You would have blown a blood vessel and named it hero I clearly said that they didn't get anywhere near the value for the prospects they traded. But it could also be true (it has been in the past ) that their farm is a heck of a lot stronger than the Sox farm, which gives them the ability to trade their good prospects without hurting future). The Red Sox also woefully overpaid for relief pitcher. They didnt hurt their future. I long for the day when making such trade wouldn't hurt the Sox future

I will repeat my periodic observation that Melky "professional hitter" Cabrera also had a negative war, and he is paid a substantial contract. He was also not in his first full season of play. They both need to get better. It may be that they keep 2 reserve outfielders; this may be necessary to platoon with Laroche at DH and to get better OF defense in late innings. That will put a lot of pressure on the reserve infielder; and Sanchez play 3rd, or do we have to go the L Garcia route and completely give up any thought of offense from that position. The biggest offensive question on a macro level is who hits second? At some point they can use some of the second-tier prospects to get an outfielder if needed. And that leaves them with those three early pics to invigorate the farm with three pieces of top talent. In the meantime, 2+ war out of melky and 1+ WAR out of Avi and this team contends.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 06:52 PM) My friends that are D-Backs fans talked about how they didn't hurt their future. My response was that they did and even if they didn't think that, the package they gave up for Miller could have netted a lot better pitchers. Arizona's farm is always turned out a lot of talent so it may be true that they didn't hurt their future. But it's also true that they could've improved by a lot more than Shelby Miller, while not hurting it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) The 40 man roster is finally full, which means if they want to bring in another major leaguer, they would have to cut an additional player if they made a claim like this. Plenty of AAAA candidates on the 40 man right now.