GreenSox

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) All of the mechanical changes Johnson made which led to, not only International League pitcher of the year results, but also the large measurable increase in velocity detailed here. http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/11/24/erik-john...-pitcher-health Very promising. Had a great year. The Sox really waited to bring him up for some reason. Wouldn't surprise me if they trade him, and likely below value.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Saladino had a 61 wRC+ and Sanchez a 60 wRC+. That is horrible. Yet Saladino was worth 1.3 bWAR and Sanchez was worth 0.7 bWAR because of their defense. Heyward is a pretty good hitter, he has a 118 wRC+ for his career. That along with his elite defense makes him worth an elite contract. Saying that if his defense regresses he won't be good is like saying if Miguel Cabrera's offense regresses then he won't be much of a player. Except that his defense assuredly will regress with age. Plus, just my opinion that that's an over-weight on defensive value, esp. as the Sox are trying to build a groundball staff. Not that OF defense isn't important, but it's nothing that the Sox are really in a position to pay a premium for. They can get competence for far less.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 01:59 PM) I would hope the Sox could get some kind of a prospect with Castro but I wouldn't really complain and I've been very much against the idea of Castro in the past. Castro for Robertson would give the Sox a bit more money to play with while filling the SS void. It's not by any means my first choice but a trade I wouldn't be pissed about either. Not much money; and if he repeats what he did 2 of the last 3 years, Castro fills no void. Robertson had a 1.8 WAR and Castro a .8. Not a good deal.

Excellent posts, Balta. And it wouldn't surprise me if they repeat the foolishness of the winter of 2014.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) I feel like Hayward is going to have a career like Adrian Beltre. Some great offensive years, some .700 -.720 ops years, but always elite defense. Unsure if that's worth 200 million. Agree and it's not. What would Upton cost?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 10:59 AM) I think it's possible that the Sox still go after Heyward anyway. The problem with Heyward is that he's not a great hitter. That's a lot of money for excellent defense and solid, but not great, hitting.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:51 AM) Really seems like they don't want to go with Erik Johnson. He's not a Cooper guy. That usually means you hit the road.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) I guess it depends on your definition of close but Seattle missed the playoffs by 1 game in 2014. You're right they did. But, in general, they haven't contended much. But you could use them as the anti-trade example too. They traded Fister and received Caspar the Friendly Ghost.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 05:37 AM) but not a front end sp a true #1 sp. That's how we got Sale. Through the draft. Rodon may turn out to be one as well. KC won a WS with nothing close to an Ace. But they had a pen, depth, and no holes. Seattle has had an ace for years, and hasn't come close to the playoffs. As for Santana, yes the Twins prospects didn't turn out to be much; of course Santana declined the second he went to NY as well. He was still good with the Mets for a while, but not an ace.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 07:35 PM) In all fairness to Hahn, it was rumored that Hahn wanted to deal Samardzija to the Jays in late June but KW wanted to wait and see if the team would come around. I do agree that the FO as a whole blew it so all we can do now is take that pick and hopefully draft a great prospect with it. And that's what needs to stop. Kenny Williams has been howling at the moon for the last 6 years, thinking this team is a contender. A ten game winning streak is just around the corner. Hahn needs to be set free to do his job.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 09:34 PM) You keep Sale until it's time for the Red Sox to sign him to a seven year 350 million dollar deal. That's where this will be heading for guys like Sale in a couple years. 50 mill a year will be the going rate. It's only escalating. Keep him til he leaves. Minor leaguers blow. That's why you draft pitcher, like the Sox do. So you can groom replacements. Draft enough of them, you'll get the replacements. Speaking of blowing, that's what this team does for the foreseeable future, as constructed.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 12:01 AM) Sox aren't getting Seager, Pederson, Urias and DeLeon for Sale. You have to be smoking serious rocks if you think that. Your best bet is to get two of those guys and maybe Puig while also taking on Carl Crawford's contract. I would do that in a heartbeat. 2 + Puig + Crawford.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Shelby Miller is a #3. I agree that Pollack for Miller is a substantial overpay by Arizona. Sale is an ace, signed for 4 more years cheap. Yes, I think a trade of Sale for full value would help the team a lot. No reason to trade him for less than that. I would say two top 10s and two others.

I would think that a team on a limited payroll would be interested and would be willing to pay the premium in players that the low salaries of our pitchers warrant. Someone like Houston. A team like Boston would/should pay the talent in return for talent, but they wouldn't get as much premium out of the low salary. But you don't trade for less than the value of the player + contract.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 12:24 AM) It's really a shame that the Sox didn't consult you before making this trade. A pitcher who is seemingly on the upswing of his career all of a sudden having the worst year of his career is incredibly difficult to predict. You are owed many kudos for knowing that this was going to happen. Good guess. A 73 win team trading 4 players, 3 of whom would have helped the team (the fourth a prospect) for a 1-year rent, is not well-conceived, even had Samardzija pitched as people thought. I guess the Sox thought they could contend, but that was howling at the moon. Hopefully they are more sensible this off-season.

Good sox can bank that comp pick. 3 top 50s should really help the org. Samardzija went to a team I like. Turnaround wouldn't surprise me. Just not a fit on the southside.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) I will say that in order to get the corner of the plate calls it probably takes a combination of the pitcher throwing close to the corner in the first place, the catcher needs a steady glove and the pitchers rep for throwing strikes. I think all three of these have an effect how the ump will call the pitch. Agree Anyway, it was time to move on from Flowers. Glad we did. Hopefully we can get competent on the cheap at 3b. And keep on building while keeping the eyes open for deals.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 07:33 AM) I think the new catching duo is something to be excited about. A healthy Avila is is better defensively than Flowers and Navarro is at least on par with Flowers except Navarro has a better arm. The Sox should be throwing out more base runners this year and the platoon bats of Navarro/Avila should put up more offense than Flowers as well. The catching position needed to be upgraded and has been and it did not cost the Sox prospects or much money which leaves plenty of resources to be used to fill a few gaping holes.. I am happy to see these changes. As for defense, I think it depends on how much credence one gives to these framing stats. Per the stats, Flowers is top notch. But I think there are a lot of variables in the stats that haven't been fully vetted. Is it the catcher or is it the pitcher that the catcher catches? And then there is the ump- wide zone v right zone. I remember when Tom Glavine pitched, he would consistently get 4 extra inches on the outside corner. Was they because of him or was he served by the greatest set of framing catchers ever?? Just from my unscientific and not statistically analyzed observations of watching ballgames, I think lefties get more corner calls than righties. Flowers catches a lot of lefties.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 08:07 PM) If the Cubs and Atlanta agree to the speculated Soler/Miller swap, the cubs rotation would be pretty solid on paper with Lackey as their #4. I hope the Dodgers up their offer for Miller. Cubs aren't getting Miller for Soler. Soler had a .1 WAR last year. point one.

Awesome. I love it. Keep running those Dodgers like the Rays, Andrew. For all the grief Stewart got for selling Touki Toussant, he didn't get the credit he deserved for moving Mark Trumbo for actual talent.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 12:25 AM) The question is in the title. Why should they keep him? Why should they not? You know where I lean, but as an economist, that always garners an "it depends." I'm drunk and bored and want to light a fire. I like chaos. But seriously..why not? I've been away. Talk to me goose. Fine with me, if you get a fair return. A fair return for Sale would improve the Sox, imo. The odds of a fair return are slim. Next year may be a better chance at a fair return (no Prices on the market). But hopefully the Sox have made a lot of progress over the next year that would increase trade reluctance.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 04:52 PM) I'm just trying different ideas. I still prefer trading for Lawrie to play 3B and starting Sanchez at 2B. If the Sox cannot find a SS then Saladino can hold the position down until Anderson shows he's ready. Might not be the most optimal plan but he Sox aren't in an optimal position either. 3B I can see for the right price. We have no one acceptable to play 3B. But Sanchez is promising; we aren't winning in 2016. See no reason to bench him for Lawrie who is offensively limited himself.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) Woulda been right up your alley a short 12 months ago. Maybe, maybe not. Don't recall evaluating a trade with him included. I generally go for ML ready prospects, and as I fully admit, many fail. No past-posting here.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) I hear ya and agree. I can live with Saladino/Sanchez up the middle for one season to see if their bats come around but my preference would be to get a SS, play Sanchez at 2B and use Saladino as the utility/platoon type. Problem with that is short stops are about as hard to come by as third baseman. One idea could be to sign Freese to play 3B, trade for Lawrie to play 2B, start Saladino at SS and use Sanchez as the utility. I still prefer Saladino as the utility due to his defensive versatility. The have their work cut out for them this off season. I just don't see vanquishing a young promising 2b, who plays excellent defense, for a proven .300 OBP.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 03:52 PM) Long time Sox 3B target for many Soxtalkers. His prospect star has faded, but is still only 24. Played mainly LF last year, so must not be much of a 3B. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox take a gamble. Very quick fall. Maybe too quick.