GreenSox

Frazier had a second half OPS of .664. His home/road splits are large He has 2 years left on his deal. Bring on the hero-worship. But I'll pass Build with young talent, please, like most of the winning organizations.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) Very few teams get much hitting out of the C and SS positions. Sox need to upgrade at least two out of 2B, 3B, DH and RF. And LF, which is really a bigger problem than RF since the bad player in LF is immovable thanks to the love of declining veterans. (and, of course, the CW hereon that Melky is a good player and Avi is terrible is just daft). And to contend, 4/5 will need to be upgraded. Of course, more declining veterans may be the fix Hahn and Williams seek to upgrade these positions.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) Catching is such a weak position across MLB. Our catching situation shouldn't be one of our top two concerns. I agree. Usually, although there are exceptions, you can upgrade 2 positions for the cost of a catcher. Sox need upgrades at 2b, SS, 3b, LF, RF. Wouldn't worry so much about catcher.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 07:31 AM) Yesterday on the Boers and Bernstein Show, they briefly talked about the White Sox. Terry Boers said something to the effect of " The one guy that I know is available is Eaton". Bernstein was then excited and thought that was a good idea to free up CF for Trayce. This seems like an awful idea. Eaton has 6.6 fWAR over the last 2 seasons, is fairly cheap, and 26 years old. Unless he's a locker room problem, that's not a guy that a team in the White Sox position should move. Thoughts? It's an excellent idea to sell high on Eaton, especially with Trayce, the superior defender, in tow.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) Not hard to see why his bottom line is miserable, all of his teams have been f***ing terrible. I'm actually surprised he managed to win 80 games with one of them. Fair enough, but you could produce similar statistics for Ventura re offense and defense and see why his bottom line is miserable. I'm looking for a reason to believe he's a good manager, beyond his use of analytics.

Acta was one of the earlier managers that embraced analytics, so the stats guys have enduring love for him. But his bottom line is miserable. I don't know if it's his fault, etc. I do want a manager who uses analytics. But there are a lot of those guys, and see little reason to take one that has a poor percentage. Plus, given that Ventura is coming back, unfortunate as that may be, it just doesn't make sense to have an experienced manager looking over his shoulder. That's not healthy. I'd much rather an Alomar type who at least can presume to be at a proper position of bench coach.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 20, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) And people were worried about that we weren't going to get a comp pick for him. It was obvious months ago he wouldn't resign. Didn't get along with Cooper. The question for me was always would anyone sign him by the deadline so that the Sox would get a comp pick.

QUOTE (JolietThunder @ Oct 19, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) Is Domonic Brown worth picking up? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/phil...onic-brown.html No. He is worse offensively and defensively than Avi, not to mention melky. Heck he's worse than Viciedo. Sox need athleticism

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 03:10 PM) Let's assume for simplicity that Eaton has center field covered, so our right fielder is either Trayce or Avi. Let's also assume that Avi can be a -10 run defender next year (that's generous) and Trayce can be +5 (that's pretty realistic). Let's also assume that Avi is a -2 baserunner and Trayce is +3. That means Avi would have to make up 20 runs, or 2 WAR, with his bat. That's probably a difference of about 25-30 wRC+. In our park that's roughly the difference between Melky Cabrera's .273/.314/.394/.709 and Adam Eaton's .287/.361/.431/.792. Trayce could definitely put up worse than Melky's line, but I see no reason to believe Avi could do better than Eaton's. Or the Sox could move Eaton to left and Trayce to center and move Melky on his way. That would improve the D significantly. Avi, in his first full season, hit a whole .34 OPS less than Melky and had twice the number of assists. Even better, sell high on Eaton- rather trade him to plug holes than Quintana.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) 1) Micah was hitting .270 when he got sent down but slugging below .300, saying he was the third best hitter is a stretch. His defense was really, really bad, he needed to go down and work on it full-time. Also, Robin didn't send him down. 5) So Robin traded those players away? Once again I'm not sure what the complaint against Robin here is, Semien and Phegley were hardly ever available for him to use when they were here. Micah was the 3rd best hitter when he was sent down. Melky, Eaton and other luminaries had lousy starts. Re 5, indeed, the front office deserves blame as well. They continually chase declining veterans, as if they're an answer to anything. Heck, they even brought Beckham back, afraid to cede the utility infielder job to one of the bevy of infield prospects they had in AAA. There is a lack of creativity throughout this organization.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) W Throwing a bunch of names like Montas, Beck and Danish together won't accomplish much, either. Or maybe the Sox can actually figure out how to use players like Montas or Micah. Longoria's OBP has been below a modest .330 for 2 straight years. Let's have declining veterans for 5 prospects, Alex.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) And how should he have used his personnel this season? It's not like he had a bounty of options. Beckham and Bonaficio completely stunk up the joint at the plate. I think he utilized Shuck/Soto pretty well, and when Saladino came up he stopped using Conor as he should have. Only issue was maybe taking too long to pull the plug on LaRoche, but it's not like there were a lot of better options and it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to see if he could turn it around. Part of it is chicken and egg. they don't give him platoonable parts because he doesn't know how to platoon. Further, with expanded rosters, he had ability to do things and he still didn't know how to do it (except for Trayce and he was protecting him from righties). however, to answer your question 1)Micah could have been subbed regularly for defense in late innings. That way, they wouldn't have had to jettison what was the 3rd best hitter on the team. 2)Neither Dunn nor Laroche needed to take many at bats against left handed pitchers. 3)With the lost season, they could have even used Saladino or Olt against lefties, if only to see if they possibly could excel on one side of the plate. 4)In 2014, Gillaspie murdered right handed pitching. Not platooned. 5)Guys like Phegley (defense not up to cooper's standards), Semien (can't play SS), Ravelo (insufficient power for 1B) all had flaws and all were sent away. The first 2 out hit most player on our team. Oakland figured out how to use them (you just don't play Semien at SS). The Sox didn't bother or realized that it's beyond the skill set of the 2 sacred cows managing the dugout. The offense paid dearly for Cooper wanting to protect his ground ball pitchers. Note that Shark, a fly ball pitcher, got no such help from the D. They wouldn't budge the woeful Melky out of left e.g. I'm actually optimistic. I think the Sox have some young talent, if they would use it properly. But they just seem uninterested and would prefer to send it away for some veteran.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 04:07 PM) But also heady/gritty/grindy in Sox tradition... That's the old tradition. That's what Shark was, and they want nothing to do with him (regardless of how he pitched). The new tradition is happy go lucky clowns, like alexei, eaton and Melky.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) I'm not ready to rule out Trayce as a regular, but completely ignoring his minor league track record and citing one outlier isn't going to convince me he is. If we're serious about competing next year, he should begin the season as our 4th OF and force his way into the lineup. And that could very well happen if LaRoche is retained as our DH. RF should be an area of focus this offseason as a potential spot for an impact bat. Contending? To contend that Sox have to get better at catcher, third-base, shortstop, second base, left field, right field. So with all of those weak spots/holes, the guy who shine for six weeks, yet with all those holes, he is a bench player. searching for stars, with so many holes is madness. Welcome to the Cincinnati Reds. Heroes galore in the outfield at third base and on the pitching staff. And a terrible team.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) The point is, replacing Robin should be last on the list of priorities. Pretty much every other need is more pressing. Not really. Robin can't platoon nor use pinch hitting properly. Thus flawed players who have one excellent aspect of their game ( while weak at something else) are of little use. he doesn't use personnel well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 02:19 AM) 7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow) 8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever 9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio LF is at least as big a problem as RF. Puig is a good player; could be great; but he could also just join the Melky/Alexei/Eaton clown show. They'll need another relieve although could fill it in house. Utility infielder could be solved in house although some platooning which would reduce the number of utility players would be nice

Just as a side note for those who think Trayce and his impeccable defense is a fourth Of (I mean how could he possibly approach Melky value?) and the rest of the prospects who aren't mL starter quality by 24 should be dumped, Frazier was modest in AA and AAA at age 26.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:59 AM) GreenSox never lets the truth get in the way of a good argument. Ooh personal attacks. And last year at this time I was hearing the "fact" that shark was an elite starter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:46 AM) He is actually a pretty good defender.. That's what the metrics say. But I don't trust defensive metrics. The jump around from year to year. I get that for offense, obciously, but not defense. Lacks range. 2 years left on the deal. I fully expect the Sox to pile up some imperfect prospects to get a guy like him, just like they did last year. And somehow the team will find a way to get output out of those guys while the Sox can't. Sox didn't get any better when they dumped Micah from second. Coopers pitcher stats got better. The team didn't.

Todd Frazier and his 2nd half c .650 OPS and bad defense? Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Sox load up the prospects for him. I mean he almost won home run derby! That the Sox can't figure out a use for Micah just shows the lack of creativity and the limits of this organization. Same with Phegley last year.

The Sox are below average at every no-pitching position except for. CF, 1b, and maybe even C. I'd much rather use Sale or whomever to get solid at a number of positions than to chase someone people are trying to convince themselves is a superstar.

So much for a thorough search

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) Except for Rick Hahn... True He just extended his 99 loss manager. Hahn could have distanced himself from this operation. Jerry Dipoto did from the Angels. Hahn has chosen not to. He's part of it. i hope they are saying that just as cover for an off-season in which they are trying to build up the depth of young player talent.

2012? That was Youkilis. He was terrific for us.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) It's 3 years of Hanley and you missed the part where the Red Sox pay a significant part of his salary. There is some dollar amount at which this is a worthwhile gamble for the Sox. Either way it's an infinitely smarter move than Todd Frazier. Well, I agree that Todd Frazier would not be a smart play. It might be a decent play w/ money IF Henley could play defense.