GreenSox

This is another reason why 2016 is a building year. Sox have 2 promising young second basemen. Why trade for Gordon off of a career year or The inconsistent Castro who is owed $40 million? A building year also provides more info on Fulmer and Adams, as well as several of the promising A ball prospects. Too many weaknesses on this team. There are some small Moves to be made but you have to pull the trigger.

He was a bench coach for a few years.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) That team would suck. Pitching would go from a plus to a negative. yep, it would be much worse. And it would retard future progress. Ryan Howard. Good lord.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) Just guessing but I think the Astros would want to relieve some salary in return for taking on Robertson's contract. I suspect either Lawrie or Valbuena would be part of the return for Robertson, which I would be fine with. I'm probably off way base here but I'd shoot for Lawrie or Valbuena + Musgrove. Lowrie and Valbuena (another low OBP player) are filler players. They'll nudge the Sox to 78 wins, although the loss of Robertson would nudge us back down. Rather get a good prospect, preferably one that's close to majors.

Robertson is a very good pitcher and is consistent as can be. His WAR each of the last 4 years varied between 1.6 and 1.8, with 2015 his best. Now he is overpaid. Tough to set his value. Maybe the Astros have a bad contract we can take over for a year, while we continue to build.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) Neither team had SAle, Q, Rodon, Abreu, or Eaton when they blew it up though. Correct. This Sox could basically get as much for dealing Sale as the Astros and the Cubs did in the blowups. The only in their prime really good players they dealt were Shark and Pence. The difference will be we won't get number one draft choices. Those basically gave the Cubs and Astros 1 elite player each. The Cubs made a couple of clever/lucky trades and invested in the international game, and the Astros just drafted well through and through.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:13 AM) We've been through this, why would the Marlins want Avi when they already have their corners filled? Can't answer that. But I also can't answer why we would want someone off of a sub . 700 OPS, and in whose " big year" had a sub .720 OBP and 150+ strikeouts.

If people want Ozuna so badly, trade Avi for him. Change of destination trade. Both have basically sucked: too little OBP and too many Ks.

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh. You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond? 1. Gordon 2b 2. Eaton lf 3. Abreu 1b 4. Melky dh 5. Ozuna rf 6. Desmond 3b 7. Trayce cf 8. Flowers c 9. Saladino ss More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson That team would barely play .500. Not one of the 3 big weaknesses addressed. Trade the farm for 3 Marlins. Good lord. Ozuna had a 1.1 WAR and a sub .700 OPS and over 100 Ks. Eric Johnson + for that? Fernandez is great but the position is not a priority. Poor use of resources. Gordon was obtained for a top 50ish prospect. Marlins made a nice trade there. So did the Angels who grabbed that prospect for 1 year of Kendrick. Those are the kind of moves to make. Not buy high off of a career year.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 07:19 PM) LJ Hoes is another semi interesting name DFA'd...25 and hit .295/.383/.400 in almost 500 AAA PA's this year with 26 steals. .299/.388/.399 in 1300+ total PA's in AAA. That's who we shoukd be all over. Not some catcher who can't catch. Astros have massive depth in B level prospects. They've already given away two good players in Martinez and De shields

Worrying about 2016 is the exact same thing the Sox have been doing since 2010...and it's gotten them nowhere. Build. If someone offers them premium for EAton, Sale or Q, consider it. Should be able to make a move in 2017 As for Dee Gordon, he was acquired for essentially one year of Howie Kendrick. Or for Montas (Dodgers overpaid for 1 year of Howie Kendrick). However you want to look at it.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead. Here is my plan for the offseason. • Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton • Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes • Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar • Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal • Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal For a "go for it" plan, pretty good (although I don't think we'd get all of that for Quintana). I'd also look for a different trade for Garcia. Trayce can cover CF and Hamilton hits like L Garcia. I like the 2nd and 3rd trades.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:32 PM) Opportunity cost would be the big downside but hell who is he gonna block? Blocking isn't the opportunity cost. The opportunity cost is using assets on Puig instead of improving several other positions. His D is less than exemplary as well. Sox need to build, not star-gaze. In one sense, though, he's the anti-Swisher. While Swisher didn't fit into the clubhouse, Puig's clowning would fit right in as long as Ventura is in charge. Building is the priority, so any consideration of Puig has to be at a steep discount.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:45 AM) I'm not that convinced that Trayce is a long-term starter, but I think if you are going that direction it likely indicates more of a youth movement. I'd also hope it indicates some focus on the D, but I don't know. We have a lot of poor defenders and I don't know that a guy who is probably better served as a 4th outfielder and starting him necessarily signals that movement. I still get pissed thinking about how we built a team around pitching with such a horrific defense. We don't know if he's the long term answer. But there's not reason no to let him play and find out. Especially, as you said, with this horrible outfield defense on this team. But a lot of people prefer those proven veterans like Melky.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) No the Sox should not have any interest. He is not a long term solution and the cost would not equal the loss in long term value for the franchise. Bingo

We have a young 2b with potential who plays better defense than Walker. No need to use assets there with so many weaknesses elsewhere.

I just don't see a match with the Cubs. Soler was terrible last year, Baez is risky, Schwarber has no position. Need 2 ML ready players + prospects for Quintana and not filler types.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Who are all the star prospects KW got rid of? People like to play both sides of the fence. KW was an idiot and drafted no one who could play, and KW was an idiot, he traded away all his good prospects. You can't have it both ways. Prospects are currency. I understand that you disagree...you only want to look retrospectively. There is an opportunity cost as well. He overpaid for Garcia (yes it worked out; top 10 prospect in baseball and a starting catcher can fetch more than a mid rotation starter), Vasquez, Ritchie, Swisher (and then turned around and gave him away for non-prospects), Jackson, et al.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 11:17 PM) if the fo will not sign FA's, then it falls on the trading of pitching prospects to get the missing pieces. if anything, his promise of being a possible elite rp should be enticing to some clubs. i an a huge fan of Adams, i will hate to see him go, but if the fo sees the need to trade him, he will be traded. i will hate it, but i hope for the best. The Sox are further away than just plugging C and 3B holes. One of our holes happens to be bullpen - not championship level. Another is the farm to get off this cycle. We can trade prospects if for equal young players... not hole-pluggers. That main Astros list is really 2nd tier players, some of whom are blocked and about to be out of options. Some should be had on the cheap and we should look and discern the price. The Astros have dumped 2 good outfielders in the last 2 years, so we should inquire.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) No kidding! Trade the farm for a young pitcher and still field a team that cannot provide run support all the while complain about the farm being a barren waste land. I don't get it... That's why I talk about hero worship. That's all this is. Just get a bunch of "stars", team be damned. This and Freeman (does anyone look at numbers?) just take the cake.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 04:23 AM) Also, it's worth mentioning that the rest of the baseball world feels that Dombrowski overpaid badly on that trade. He did. It was the "perfect storm" and unlikely to be replicated. 1)Dombrowski as a GM overpays*; 2)Boston had the farm to support overpaying; and most of all 3)Dombrowski's achilles heel in Detroit was that bullpen. There was no way he was going to let it happen in Boston. KW was like that too. Overpaid. It was okay when the Sox had a top farm, like we did c. 2000-2005. But he started getting squeezed as the farm deteriorated. I used to be all for trading bullpen pitchers. But their value is skyrocketing. The modern pen requires 3 lockdown guys (Sox have one lockdown guy). Maybe that their value is skyrocketing is another reason to trade them - I don't know.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 05:38 PM) Major blockbuster proposal: SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez Who says no? Well, this is a cool trade. Honestly, I don't think it's quite enough for the Sox. If you leave Anderson off, I'm there or maybe one of the Johnsons instead of Anderson. Bosox wouldn't do it because it messes up their current team and they plan on contending.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:07 PM) i don't if it is me, but the sox does not come out too great. What you don't want to trade Fulmer for Cargo and his 2.1 WAR, bad defense, 2 years of control and 17.5M annual salary?

Any good player that may be traded, we gotta get. How about fixing holes at C, 3b, SS, LF, RF, DH and in the pen and in the farm first? Does Fernandez make this a playoff team? He's a 10 game improvement pitcher? Good gracious.

I'm not so anxious to dump Montas. Our mediocre bullpen sure could use him.