GreenSox

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) And how should he have used his personnel this season? It's not like he had a bounty of options. Beckham and Bonaficio completely stunk up the joint at the plate. I think he utilized Shuck/Soto pretty well, and when Saladino came up he stopped using Conor as he should have. Only issue was maybe taking too long to pull the plug on LaRoche, but it's not like there were a lot of better options and it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to see if he could turn it around. Part of it is chicken and egg. they don't give him platoonable parts because he doesn't know how to platoon. Further, with expanded rosters, he had ability to do things and he still didn't know how to do it (except for Trayce and he was protecting him from righties). however, to answer your question 1)Micah could have been subbed regularly for defense in late innings. That way, they wouldn't have had to jettison what was the 3rd best hitter on the team. 2)Neither Dunn nor Laroche needed to take many at bats against left handed pitchers. 3)With the lost season, they could have even used Saladino or Olt against lefties, if only to see if they possibly could excel on one side of the plate. 4)In 2014, Gillaspie murdered right handed pitching. Not platooned. 5)Guys like Phegley (defense not up to cooper's standards), Semien (can't play SS), Ravelo (insufficient power for 1B) all had flaws and all were sent away. The first 2 out hit most player on our team. Oakland figured out how to use them (you just don't play Semien at SS). The Sox didn't bother or realized that it's beyond the skill set of the 2 sacred cows managing the dugout. The offense paid dearly for Cooper wanting to protect his ground ball pitchers. Note that Shark, a fly ball pitcher, got no such help from the D. They wouldn't budge the woeful Melky out of left e.g. I'm actually optimistic. I think the Sox have some young talent, if they would use it properly. But they just seem uninterested and would prefer to send it away for some veteran.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 04:07 PM) But also heady/gritty/grindy in Sox tradition... That's the old tradition. That's what Shark was, and they want nothing to do with him (regardless of how he pitched). The new tradition is happy go lucky clowns, like alexei, eaton and Melky.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) I'm not ready to rule out Trayce as a regular, but completely ignoring his minor league track record and citing one outlier isn't going to convince me he is. If we're serious about competing next year, he should begin the season as our 4th OF and force his way into the lineup. And that could very well happen if LaRoche is retained as our DH. RF should be an area of focus this offseason as a potential spot for an impact bat. Contending? To contend that Sox have to get better at catcher, third-base, shortstop, second base, left field, right field. So with all of those weak spots/holes, the guy who shine for six weeks, yet with all those holes, he is a bench player. searching for stars, with so many holes is madness. Welcome to the Cincinnati Reds. Heroes galore in the outfield at third base and on the pitching staff. And a terrible team.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) The point is, replacing Robin should be last on the list of priorities. Pretty much every other need is more pressing. Not really. Robin can't platoon nor use pinch hitting properly. Thus flawed players who have one excellent aspect of their game ( while weak at something else) are of little use. he doesn't use personnel well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 02:19 AM) 7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow) 8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever 9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio LF is at least as big a problem as RF. Puig is a good player; could be great; but he could also just join the Melky/Alexei/Eaton clown show. They'll need another relieve although could fill it in house. Utility infielder could be solved in house although some platooning which would reduce the number of utility players would be nice

Just as a side note for those who think Trayce and his impeccable defense is a fourth Of (I mean how could he possibly approach Melky value?) and the rest of the prospects who aren't mL starter quality by 24 should be dumped, Frazier was modest in AA and AAA at age 26.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:59 AM) GreenSox never lets the truth get in the way of a good argument. Ooh personal attacks. And last year at this time I was hearing the "fact" that shark was an elite starter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:46 AM) He is actually a pretty good defender.. That's what the metrics say. But I don't trust defensive metrics. The jump around from year to year. I get that for offense, obciously, but not defense. Lacks range. 2 years left on the deal. I fully expect the Sox to pile up some imperfect prospects to get a guy like him, just like they did last year. And somehow the team will find a way to get output out of those guys while the Sox can't. Sox didn't get any better when they dumped Micah from second. Coopers pitcher stats got better. The team didn't.

Todd Frazier and his 2nd half c .650 OPS and bad defense? Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Sox load up the prospects for him. I mean he almost won home run derby! That the Sox can't figure out a use for Micah just shows the lack of creativity and the limits of this organization. Same with Phegley last year.

The Sox are below average at every no-pitching position except for. CF, 1b, and maybe even C. I'd much rather use Sale or whomever to get solid at a number of positions than to chase someone people are trying to convince themselves is a superstar.

So much for a thorough search

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) Except for Rick Hahn... True He just extended his 99 loss manager. Hahn could have distanced himself from this operation. Jerry Dipoto did from the Angels. Hahn has chosen not to. He's part of it. i hope they are saying that just as cover for an off-season in which they are trying to build up the depth of young player talent.

2012? That was Youkilis. He was terrific for us.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) It's 3 years of Hanley and you missed the part where the Red Sox pay a significant part of his salary. There is some dollar amount at which this is a worthwhile gamble for the Sox. Either way it's an infinitely smarter move than Todd Frazier. Well, I agree that Todd Frazier would not be a smart play. It might be a decent play w/ money IF Henley could play defense.

The best part is, that while the Sox lose Laroche after 2016, they'd get 4 years of Hanley, at only twice Laroche's salary!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) Which tells me that Ventura isn't as secure as the torch bearers want to believe. It's interesting. Alomar's resume doesn't really leap out to me as "ready to be a manager." Which is okay - he could learn on the job managing for Ventura while Ventura keeps the clubhouse wholesome. It would be good experience for Alomar's career, with the Sox or elsewhere. I've heard names like Acta mentioned - but he's a vetted, experienced manager, which could really cause Ventura to look over his shoulder. While I don't think Ventura knows what he's doing, having someone looking over your shoulder and wanting your job isn't healthy either. I like the Alomar approach.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 07:33 PM) Arrieta was trash with Baltimore. Cubs lucked out like the Sox did with Quintana. And Shark was merely a result of good timing for the Cubs (and luck that he didn't accept their $80 mil offer). While tanking for 5 years straight, they had an above average starter primed to get a huge free agent payday just before they were about to start getting good. I agree on Arrieta. But you make your own luck sometimes. Get rid of mediocre parts for prospects, and you will hit oil eventually. There's little downside - because while Arrieta was trash, so was the player they traded for him. The Sox best moves under the Williams regime have always been the little doinky trades. Credit the Cubs for timing. He was in the midst of a career year and they made an affirmative effort to set the market -move him before the Prices et al got moved. And they did. The Sox then bought that career year. The market for Shark this year would have been pretty salty had the Sox done similar and moved him after that shutout of the Blue Jays before the All Star break. His value was never going to get higher. But the Sox didn't. Luck? Sure. But the more intelligent moves you make, the luckier you get.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) They did hold onto Thornton too long, They did hold onto him too long. Should have traded him after his career year...but the Sox buy career years, they don't sell them. And then they didn't hold onto him too long - they couldn't wait to get rid of him in 2013 and basically gave him away for a Rule 5 eligible prospect. He's still an effective ML pitcher.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 06:35 PM) A couple people have mentioned this. Who the hell did the Cubs get? Who did they get for: Geo Soto Derek Lee Alfonso Soriano Aramis Ramirez Marlon Byrd Ryan Dempster Carlos Zambrano Matt Garza That list is about like the Sox list - expiring contract, declining veterans. Yet still, aside from a couple of still promising prospects, they got one of the best pitchers in the NL and a stud young SS in their sell-offs. Tell me, where would they be without those 2? But Kenny and Rick showed 'em how dumb they were trading the Shark.

Sox didn't have much to trade. Peavy was really it. Perhaps we sold light with Rios. Astros got very little from their breakup, and they had a lot more to trade than the Sox did, including an in his prime Hunter Pence. They seem to have made out okay. The Cubs, however, did phenomenally well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 04:35 PM) I don't see Montas helping the Sox in '16 either, especially as a starter. I think he could definitely help in the pen. Like to see him start for another year though.

The Cubs got a lot from the sell-offs. But the Astros got very little from theirs. But the Astros drafted like maniacs. A ton of depth and not just from the top picks. Both of those teams have far more major league depth than the Sox. Part of that is that they know how to utilize limited and imperfect players.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 09:06 AM) I'd be careful saying Thompson is "much better defensively", this early in his career, as a CF. Also, trading Eaton is removing one of the only two positives in the lineup this year, really. Trading him for Thompson will be a significant overall downgrade, probably. Thompson makes a lot more sense to replace Avisail than Eaton. Well, it's not like I suggested giving Eaton away. Bring a 3B and/or C in for him. How then are the Sox going to get better? You have to trade something to get something. I think Trayce is miles better than Eaton defensively (a lot of that is because Eaton isn't particularly good defensively). I also don't know why people are so down on Avisail, yet say nothing about Melky. Huge age differential, salary differential. Both are poor defensively (although Avi had more assists). While Melky out-hit Avi, he still was below par offensively.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) The person suggesting trading Eaton, ripped Ventura for playing him, saying he's not as good as his numbers. Now , trading him is supposed to net a 3B and a catcher. That's living in fantasyland. Wrong. I ripped him for not sitting him in September and letting Trayce play - although I didn't really rip on that. I ripped far more on playing the "elite" Melky Cabrera day after day. Never said Eaton couldn't produce. He hit c. .857 OPS after his first month. That will bring value. Which should be the idea. Although some prefer idols. But don't worry. Eaton will be back. Far greater chance of Trayce being packaged for a declining veteran than for EAton being traded for young talent.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 05:40 PM) Trade Danks to Dodgers for Van Slyke and a low level minor leaguer Trade Micah, Beck, Avi, and Danish for Todd Frazier and JJ Hoover That would be a steal for Van Slyke. I fully expect some major hero worship on Todd Frazier this fall and winter. And the Reds will probably have him on the block. The reality is that, despite(or perhaps because of) his performance in the HR Derby, his 2nd half OPS was a dreadful c. .670. Not that I suspect this to dissuade the Sox: bad 2nd half splits never have before. He's also a bad defender (much worse than his metrics suggest). And if the Sox get him (and I dearly hope they don't), they'll pay more than you suggest for 2 years of his greatness.