GreenSox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 12:12 PM) With his performance, and his contract, he is worth a top prospect. If not, you keep him. Just don't see it. Top, yes; elite, no. Getting a top 10 for Shark was just a lucky Cubs fluke. Of course, I am not overly bullish on Quintana, so that's my bias. (wasn't bullish on Shark either). he may be statistically worth what you guys suggest; I don't see teams paying that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 11:47 AM) Jason Frasor/Ryan Madson, Paulo Orlando or Dyson and Christian Colon. Maybe they'll throw in Medlen or Hochevar, lol. Seriously though, I would try to move Quintana. He's not worth an elite prospect, but something like the Royals' 2, 4 and 5 would work. I think you can get full value for him and lord knows we need young talent infused into this org. I see Santiago is outpitching Quintana. Not terribly surprising - he just needed to get his walks under control.

What he doesn't say is what the Royals should give up. Let me guess: the org's 6th and 7th prospects, with some Rios thrown in.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:40 PM) I'm in complete awe of the cardinals and what they have been able to do this year. Call up a backup outfielder from the minors and he rakes. Meanwhile on the south side there's no hope in site. The Sox have no room for outfielders from the minors. They spend $6 million on utility level talent.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:24 PM) It's the opposite, chris hasn't been on their level in anything other than the strikeout title, but I'm too tired to fight this one so I'll just link to the stats. If you look at ERA. Otherwise, utterly false.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 03:33 PM) If the Sox thought they had anything in Davidson, he'd be here already. With the Sox history of evaluating young talent, that, sadly, doesn't say much.

Pretty easy to see that coming. They should have pinch hit for Flowers in the 2nd inning.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) Well, to be clear... he was cut from A+... went to indy ball where he resurrected his curveball and made some mechanical changes.. Sox re-signed him to A+ again as he'd improved... Perdew worked on a cutter with him and made further tweaks, so he was getting even better... was promoted to AA... played winter ball in Mexico... Was ready to be in AA or AAA to being 2015 but they didn't have a slot for him so they "loaned" him to the Mexican League (roughly AA to AAA equivalent), where he looked good... THEN he went to AAA. He was an org guy. He made key improvements - added fastball velocity and movement, added a major league cutter, re-added his curveball - so now he's more than that. He may not turn out to be much, but he's a better pitcher than he was 2 years ago by a long shot. Thanks I obviously missed some steps in there.

I read the article. But how do the Sox cut him from A ball one day, and not only sign him after a short stint in Indy, but sign him back into AAA? Was it simply a case of signing him back to be an org guy? Is he an org guy or a legit prospect that they just only realized?

You'll never get fair player value for Sale's quality as a pitcher +length of contract + price of contract. But if you could get fair player value for the first two (quality + length of contract) you could take care of a lot of the price by having the other team take Danks and Melky (Sox really don't have that many bad contracts). Now saving JR money doesn't do much for the fans. One area in which I think the gurus are wrong is that Sale's value is maximized in July. I think you can get a better return in December. In July, any roster contributor is off the table; further, it's harder to take bad contracts because they'd have to kick some other players off the roster. That said, I doubt you could get player value + length of contract value for Sale. I still think that's 2 elites plus 2 other top 100 prospects.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2013 -> 07:32 PM) His chapter on catching is dedicated to Ricketts. His goal was to recall and recapture as much as he remembered from his former coach. A few days before his argument with the ump, Shildt took his catchers aside and read with them the chapter, which dissects the position, from exercises to drills to selflessness. Matheny lists 16 characteristics that a Cardinals catcher must have. They range from a "high baseball IQ" and "good communicator," to "exceptional flexibility in the lower ½ muscles" and "capable of taking blame even when it is unjustified." These traits are non-negotiable, he said. "There's a list of them that I believe are not just important, but critical," Matheny said. "They have to be there or it's going to hurt the team, it's going to hurt your career, and you might as well go somewhere else to another position or another organization if those aren't a part of who you are." That is the overriding sense of the manual. It does have the standard baseball drills in it. A reader can see how Kissell breaks down the infield positions into the 11 different plays a third baseman will see, the 13 a shortstop has to handle, the 12 for second base and so on. But there are also lessons that transcend the field. There are suggestions for the man as well as the Cardinal when it comes to "all things that go into how you're defined," Mozeliak said. * * *[/i] AKA fundamentals and actual coaching. Edit - didn't realize this thread was 2 years old. Still relevant I suppose.

Ventura is low hanging fruit. Rather see analysis of the Sox drafting, evaluation and front office. If you fire Ventura, Cooper should go too. But i don't see the point in firing them now really just to put the bench coach in charge.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 06:33 AM) Mlbtr posted about how the Astros are going to have 40-man roster problems in the off-season again and that can help motivate them to make a couple of trades for starting pitching. The Astros are loaded with 2nd tier prospects. If you are going to trade for those guys, you better get quantity and home 1 rises from the din. And, of course, 2nd tier prospects is what most teams will want to trade for a rent of Shark, and understandably (that's what we traded for our rent of Shark). Hoes is one of those guys the Astros had up for a couple of years, and then replaced with better players.

We blame the Sox for hiring insiders, well that is abetted by the fan base that loves the heroes. Forget Ozzie - he was a clownshow his last couple of years. He never could evaluate talent worth a hoot. When he didn't like a player, he compelled Williams to basically give him away. He wanted a team of hackers. Get someone from the outside, please; and someone who uses modern techniques. Robin, of course, isn't the sole issue or even the greatest issue. Drafting and development is, as well as overall talent evaluation.

You can't count the long-time Sox as the Sox haven't won in a long time, as we know. But among the newbies: Cabrera - 4 post season teams Laroche - 4 post season teams Avi - 1 Robertson - 4 Shark - 1 Albers, Jennings, Duke - 0 Bonifacio - not bothering to look up The idea that we need a bunch of old vets that have been in postseason is silly.

The thrust of the piece wasn't that Ventura is a good manager or even not a bad one. It's that the players are bad (one positive WAR position player) and the blame falls on the front office.

The other risk, of course, is that since this failed so badly, JR could order them to sell everything and go Rays payroll mode.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) You angry boy lately. Very angry! I think Kenny is a great scout. We can't really look at things in a vacuum. When Kenny was heading player development the system was of the best in the baseball. His issue was that he thought he needed to exhaust every penny on the MLB team and got bent over by the past CBA as a result of it. Then he also let his buddy screw up our international system badly. Nevertheless, let Kenny clean house in our scouting and development , take it over for a while and stabilize it. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) This has been really well documented over the years. I've never seen any such documentation that he turned down a verified offer to be a GM elsewhere.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) If this is true, you have to fire Hahn as well. Why would you want a person to run your organization who was stupid enough to turn down other GM jobs to take a job where he had no power. If he willingly took a job where KW was calling the shots, I don't want him in my organization. What other GM jobs did he turn down? Dick may be right - this is all on JR's orders. But still, to many of the acquisitions were of the Kenny Williams failed profile. I agree that Robertson doesn't seem like a KW type of closer... but using real assets on relief pitchers and utility players is a KW method.

Too soon to tell. Doesn't even have a single full year. He had a vicious slump, but he's coming out of it. But he'll need an OPS of >.800 to be of any real value.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) This isn't really true. He built the team. He and ideas. Pitched those ideas to Kenny and then they went forward. Hahn talked about wanting Melky and speaking to the agent. Then he Reinsdorf gave him the go ahead. Rick Hahn isn't a puppet or he wouldn't have taken the job. He does have a boss though. That would be Kenny Williams. I think it's more of Ken Williams' ideas and Hahn went out and executed those ideas. Too much Williams' M.O. on the last offseason. Entirely Williams' M.O. really. If Hahn was making all of the decisions, we'd see him move in his own direction...this offseason was the same kind of moves Williams' has been making for years.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) Why Guerra? Because they aren't pitching him. They should have given him the Carroll role at least. (still don't know why Carroll on the 25 - he's like Axe). Guerra hasn't been allowed to pitch much, so he's going. Wish he had - he was dominant in AAA. I doubt you can really sell high on Putnam just yet...doesn't have much of a track record. I'd definitely move Duke if someone wants to give value for him. Petricka too. He may invoke grounders, but they are smoked and he doesn't strike many out. Don't know why Danks hasn't been tried in the LH relief role. It would be nice to see if he can do it, which would give the double advantage of seeing if Erik Johnson can pitch in the majors.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 07:30 AM) If you read this article about Sandberg and are willing to accept they're pretty similar in their styles...look at the problems with the Phillies and the White Sox, you The only difference is the Cubs passed over Sandberg twice, the Hoosiers passed over Alford, etc. They didnt want to be put in the position to fire a hugely popular former player. And they were smart for not hiring their heroes. And it's worse with the Sox because the org. and fan base does so much hero worshiping that practically every player who played a while and was productive is revered to some extent. It also contributes to the Sox being overly insular.

"willing to part" - good lord is that an understatement (at least it should be). They need to be willing to part with everyone except Sale, Abreu, Quintana and Rodon, if not even some of those.

Angels could be a spot for Laroche. They have little LH hitting. He could DH and spell Albert once or twice a week.