GreenSox

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 22, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) A trade of Alexei makes no sense after this LaRoche deal, unless Hahn is acquiring another SS from somewhere. The LaRoche deal is a "win now" move. Rebuilding teams shouldn't be signing 35-year-old DHs to $12.5M/year contracts. I think it's more of a let's be competitive now move. From a different angle it actually allows the Sox to trade Alexei, keep building, while still fielding a decent team. As they know, this 63 and 73 win stuff is unacceptable to Sox fans, rebuilding or not.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:56 PM) Of course, the risk is buying veterans like Keppinger, Duke and LaRoche at high points when the odds are good they won't be able to sustain that level of success. At least they're mitigating risk by not spreading it out over 4-5 seasons with these signings. There's that. They're not franchise-altering missteps like Dunn and Danks. Duke and Laroche certainly could regress, but Keppinger is an anomaly, not the norm. He just didn't want to play.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:21 PM) A trade involving the Padres where they get Viciedo and Semien, and the Sox get Tyson Ross. That's the kind of trade I like - spare parts leaving the southside....good player in return.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:50 PM) They will have to decide in the next couple of weeks whether Viciedo's worth more or less the same ($4-4.5 million) as DeAza and Beckham in that role...assuming they find a corner of. They've got Markakis, Cruz, Tomas, Torii Hunter, Me. Cabrera, Aoki and Rasmus remaining on the board. Yea, I think they'll keep Viciedo for 1 more year and see. I don't think they'll sign any of those guys. Maybe Rasmus I think they'll sign 2 more pitchers and trade for an OF. I hope it involves Alexei but it may not.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:41 PM) C.Rondon in 2015? Just wow. It didn't work to carry Brian Anderson in 2006 when we had one of the best offenses in the league...andRondon wouldn't come close to Anderson's numbers offensively. Leury Garcia would make fewer errors than Rondon and nobody wants to see him on the roster even. A) the 2006 team did win 90 games B) Mackowiak played a lot of CF C)CF is a more offensive position than SS Yes, I'm on the trade Alexei bandwagon. D)Rushing Rondon would basically ensure he hits like L Garcia for his entire career. Let's see if he can develop some sort of stroke first.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:43 PM) I absolutely hate Gillaspie in the 3 hole. If we acquire a much better hitter to fill that spot then I will feel much better. He belongs in the 6/7 range.

Thing about Ethier is that the Sox don't really need another lefty platoon hitter at this point. In fact, someone to platoon with Laroche would be helpful.

Onto the next proposal of how to relieve the organization of its top prospects for 1 or 2 years of some "elite" player so we can return to 2003 or 2011 Sox don't need another top of the rotation starter, with still big holes to fill.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:41 PM) Getting LaRoche, no way you get rid of Alexei now unless an insane deal comes across Hahn's table. Why not? It's not like Alexei is elite. He's at peak value and other teams seem to really want him. Sox can improve the club and organization by trading him. An all D shortstop would be satisfactory if we can get a quality YOUNG outfielder for him and not touch our prospects. I'd do Van Slyke and a couple of quality prospects in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:43 PM) Maybe Justin Upton is an idea as well. A rent who will cost more in pitching than Heyward. This was a solid move. He can hit, he can play the field, they wanted a LH bat, and we didn't have to squander prospects just to make sure we have nothing after 2015, like everyone here seems to want to do. this is how you get competitive for today without damaging the future. And the salary is reasonable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:37 PM) Yeah, this removes the need for Bruce but the other 2 still make sense unless they are willing to throw the dice on VicieD'Oh for another year. I think they want to give Vic another year and not sell low on him. I do hope they move Alexei. Most interested in Van Slyke among Dodger outfielders. Is arc is still heading up. Don't need complainers on this team, esp with Ventura as manager.

We got our Dunn back! Heck, I like this. They want to be competitive. Beats a trade. And we needed someone to spell Abreu at first as well. Those heels got chippy.

I don't understand the rules. This guy was drafted in 2012 and pitched one inning in the majors. He's not waiver-protected?

OPS in the mid 700s and dropping each of the last 3 years. He'll be 30 next year. Am I supposed to believe that's worth a top prospect? Heck, go get Carl Crawford. He delivers the same; he's only 32 (seems like he's 40, he's been around so long). We could get him and a couple of good prospects for Alexei. Work a 3 way to get Saunders out of Seattle; he's pretty good and could improve. On the WAR comparisons, I note that both he and Bruce are both dreadful defensively. this is more boom/bust, pay for past performance, get likely less in future performance, again.

Catcher may also be a position in which the Sox have some prospects reasonably close who could turn into serviceable major league catchers. I am anxious to see if Phegley can hit ML pitching in 2015, which I assume will be his last shot. Smith had a good year and I recall Northside being reasonably bullish on him. Neito will probably be the AA catcher; he was overmatched in the majors but wasn't that bad either. Flowers was near the top in baseball in throwing runners out. I'll take league average at catcher. To get otherwise, you have to either a)develop your own, b) pay a huge premium or c)try to convince yourself that the Monteros or Castros are elite and even then the clock will strike 12 eventually.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:00 PM) I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once. Heyward is a much better ballplayer than Bruce and while not coming off of a good year, not a catastrophic year either. Jenkins is an A ball pitcher - yea, he has several years of control just like most A ball pitchers. The Cardinals also have surplus pitching and a strong farm and can afford to make moves like this that just tap off an already excellent team. They also have a reasonable believe that they can extend Heyward. That's why I want to trade Alexei and his 2 years of control. The White Sox are full of holes. Williams appears impatient but I hope Hahn holds him back. 2005 is 2005 (and a pitching/defense team), but the org underperformed during most of Williams' tenure.

upgrade would be marginal. Sub .700 OPS the last 2 years. Flowers was a warrior out there last year; barely had a day off. LF, SP, DH and some defense in LF are much greater needs. How about some young players with upside?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 11:54 PM) Id keep an eye on one of those guys that are free agents next year as well. There are a few that fit with what they are trying to do. My understanding is that they're trying to position themselves to compete for many years. It will be interesting to see how rents comport with that...unless they are confident that they can get extensions without them hitting the open market (which I have seen only once, and that was Garcia who had an in house connection).

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) a player has 1 bad year and he's pretty much dead to this board. Bruce had a fairly serious knee injury and it affected him all year. You can't just pretend like the guy didn't have an OPS above .800 the 3 years before last. If he was 34 it would be a serious concern, but he's freaking 27 and people are saying things like "deteriorate and decline"? There is such a thing as a down year. he's a good hitter. That's all. And he has the same weaknesses that have plagued the Sox for years (not good OBP; Ks a lot). And it will take the Swisher trade to get him and that was a horrendous overpay even had Swisher performed. He's not worth 2 top prospects when healthy, just like Swisher wasn't. And top prospects remain in short supply with the Sox. Lind had an OPS in the 800s....what did Milwaukee pay for him? What did the Sox get for Carlos Lee and his 850+ OPS? And then there's the injury - he had surgery early last year and did not recover well. That's a huge risk How much should he be discounted because of that? And 2 top prospects is FULL value when healthy, not an injury discount. he's never been an elite ballplayer. The foundation is nowhere near ready to force trades like that.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:49 PM) I'm not against scooping up Ike Davis if the Sox have a platoon in mind, sadly that probably means the platoon would be with Tank. No matter what it must be a platoon because Ike Davis CANNOT hit lefties and makes Gillaspie look good. That would be okay for a cheap stopgap.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) We can't fill our whole roster with 5-6 year cost controlled guys, just not possible. And one bad year does not mean he's declining, it means he had one bad year. It doesn't necessarily mean that he is...but it could mean that he is. Why pay top dollar to accept that risk? The price will be as if he's .800 OPS+hitter (esp if Williams is involved). Get melky if we must "go all in" this year (73 win team going all in is another story). And he wasn't that great to begin with...not nearly as great as people act like he was. High K, mediocre obp. boom/bust type. We don't have enough quality cost controlled player right now. Sox need more. Let Detroit flail away for one more year and then we'll pounce.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:54 PM) How is he declining? Exclude 2014 and you honestly feel you can stand by that statement? And i should exclude 2014...why exactly? He's a medicore OBP ballplayer that Ks a lot. You guys act like he has hall of fame skill. He's an equivalent hitter to, say, Swisher when we acquired him (although the strengths/weaknesses are different). He's a Carlos Lee. What team was giving us top prospects for Carlos Lee? Hell, we traded him of a peak year at the same part in his career for a middle reliever and a journeyman CF. Yet, let's go pay 3 times that price today when he's off of a terrible year? The Sox should be trying to get all of the young talent they can get.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:46 PM) Do you throw everyone into the "declining veteran" box? Bruce is 27 years old and had a serious knee injury last year. You can hate on his high K rate, but the dude is not at the point in his career where he should be declining. Maybe he "Shouldn't be", but he is in decline. I do classify them as declining if they are declining, which he is. Clown trades like that are a prime reason why the Sox have 3 playoff appearances in 15 years despite a top 1/3 payroll under Williams' watch. The second we have a decent prospect, got to move them. You guys want to pay top dollar for players off of bad years. It's like giving our top 2 pitching prospects for Edwin Jackson and his 5+ ERA.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:21 PM) Early. Revisiting talks. Might take Q + Wow - you mean it will only take Quintana and a top prospect to land a high K hitter with a .654 OPS! QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 08:41 PM) Would anybody do Avi, Semien, and Montas for Bruce? The love of declining veterans is getting sillier by the minute. .654 OBP is not good. Nor is 159 strikeouts Hahn would belong in an asylum if he gave Avi or Montas for Bruce, much less both. Spare parts only.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:18 AM) They're very unlikely to trade Norris, and Vogt or Jaso isn't the type of return we'd be looking for on Alexei. If they're willing to trade Josh Reddick AND Vogt or Jaso for Ramirez, then it becomes at least a more interesting discussion. I could see Reddick/Jaso as the offer. Not including Norris and probably not Vogt since they control his rights for a long time. No Reddick has 2 years and Jaso 1. Youth please.