GreenSox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) Highlights. -Thinks that payroll for 2015 will in the low $90's That's a pitiful payroll for a large market team. If that's correct and if it's mandated, it finally makes sense why the Sox would even entertain trading scarce prospects for 1 year players in areas of secondary need (although I still wouldn't do it).

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) JA Happ to Seattle for Michael Saunders. Toronto getting back another Canadian. Saunders would have closed a gaping hole of the Sox at a cheap price; instead the Sox want short term fixes of non-priority needs at high prices.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 1, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) If he isn't that great, why would any team give up much to get him? He's old, he's falling apart, but he should net a really good prospect. How does that make any sense? Who said he was old and falling apart. I said he isn't great. He's good Contenders with strong farms have huge needs for SS. They will pay, I believe, for a good SS. I don't see 2015 as prime Sox window.

I hope he makes trades similar to the ones last year: well-thought out that fill a need and which doesn't hurt the farm.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) I agree 100%. They should non-tender him, but I don't think they will, and I think they'll be stuck with him. They should not not-tender him. He has talent - give him one more year. I also saw that the Brave non-tendered Medlen. I'd check him out.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) It'd be an overpay though. The deal would still be Anderson for 1 year of Samardzija regardless of what he does when he gets here. Exactly This idea that the Sox should overpay because they may extend him is inane. That rarely happens. Money talks. Sox are in no position to do rents anyway, including renting the most elite 2/3 starter imaginable, the Shark.

Sox need both Johnson and Anderson. They have no 2B right now; Anderson isn't ready and when he is, we'll have no Shortstop. But by all means, let's trade them all for one whole year of the greatest, most elite 2/3 starter there is, the Shark. If the priority is another 2/3 starter (which it shouldn't be IMO), there are other ways to accomplish it: Sign Lester or Scherzer Trade for Hammels (much better value than Shark). Yet, we don't hear the Sox in on one of those guys. How could that be if JR really is willing to spend?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 30, 2014 -> 07:43 AM) You're being ridiculous if you think Semien for Shark is too much and once again I'm a big fan of Marcus. The one thing people keep skipping over is the fact that Shark is basically going to make nothing this year(relative to top of the rotation starters) and still allows them to improve the team in other areas because they'd still have money to mess around with. And they'll save on Shark for 1 year. Where does that get us? Heck, they have money now to spend, but seem to be nowhere on FAs. They need a 3B, but they were nowhere on Pablo, despite the money to do so and he didn't exceed his projections. Melky? Not my cup of tea, but he can hit and he's there. Oh, I know - Upton for 1 year. Whoopee! If they want to do a real trade, go get Hammels. Heck, he'll only cost us 2 top prospects, which is better than 1 for the great Shark. Trade Alexei - he's not that great a player and teams will overpay for him. (the Sox are so sentimental, they don't want to do that). But no, they want shortcuts and stay on the cheap. I also get the sense that some in the Sox have convinced themselves that Shark is an ace - sort of like how they convinced themselves that VAsquez and Edwin Jackson were aces. If they want to shortcut it, spend real money. Sherzer and Lester are out there. They are much better than Shark. JR and Williams (presumably under JR's order) want to field a contender year after year a)with no farm system and b) with a $110 million budget. Not happening.

Sign McCarthy and hope he stays healthy. He's as good a pitcher as Samardzija. Or sign Scherzer and Melky. There are a lot of things the Sox can do if they must push for 2015, without cow-towing to Beane, stripping the farm, getting 1 year players.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 08:43 PM) I'm ok with it, depending on the deal. Yea I'm okay with trading Anderson too...for lots of young talent. Not 1 year rents and not for mediocre and declining veterans. I'll pass on another Ken Williams 86 win team with a stripped out farm system. Trading him for 1 year of Shark to grace the Sox with his greateness is laughable.

Alexei remains the Sox best trade piece, and he can be used to improve the ball club next year. He's a nice shortstop but he isn't that great and the Sox can cover the position. they can't cover pitching and LF.

He can see all of these teams lining up to trade for him for 1 year; I'm sure he realizes that there will be quite a market for him as a free agent.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 12:03 PM) Considering the years of control with Abreu, Sale, Q, Eaton, Rodon, etc etc, I wouldn't be surprised if the holdup here is the Sox working out the framework of a contract extension and the players are already in place. I'll believe that when I see it. I haven't seen an instantaneous trade/sign in 40 years following this team (Garcia is the only one who was close - he signed later that year) although I remember several when the Sox were "assured" he'd sign. Richie Zisk had a dream, after all. And regardless, the Sox should pay the value of 1 year of a #3 starter. No more.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) Grew up a Sox fan, I hated him on the Cubs, but I think this guy is a legit third starter. he is. For one whole year. Maybe that he was a Sox fan has given them some fools notion that he'll sign long-term. Beane misjudged the market and overpaid for him by a lot. But what the heck, load up the wagon for the Shark.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) What is wrong with Alexei for Smardjiza, straight up? The Sox save money this year. They don't have to make a risky long term commitment, on a pitcher. Next year, they may not need "Shark," and if they are still short a starter, perhaps there will be another pitcher available, who is similarly in his final contract year. In terms of value, nothing is wrong with that. It's an even trade. What's wrong with it, however, is opportunity cost. Why waste Alexei on a 1 year player when we could trade him and fill multiple holes, and/or get some good prospects (which at the least are currency). The Sox are below average at the following positions: 2B, LF, #3 starter, #4 starter, 1 (to be kind) bullpen spot, bench bat. They are also bad at overall team defense (3B and RF are poor defensively aside from the above). That trade closes #3 starter, and opens up SS. And it closes #3 for a single year. That situation is winning a world series? Of course not, and it's a long shot to even make the playoffs. But we'd have the Shark, and, from reading this board, that's all it takes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) So the As give up a year of team control on a near MVP caliber guy 4 years away from FA and immediately get worse to bring in a couple "wild cards" as you guys describe them. For a team always financially strapped, giving up a year of team control seems silly. Even if Donaldson was trending down, man I have to think I'd be thrilled if the White Sox gave up a comparable package. They aren't exactly "wild cards". The one wild card will likely be a top 100 prospect in the next rundowns. The other 2 pitchers are major league ready and both pitched in the majors last year. (one was taught a cutter recently; I guess coop doesn't have that patented). I believe they are of the low-upside type, but the As get a lot of mileage out of these pitchers with 4/5 starter arms. And the As got a major league starting 3B. and as Dick pointed out, Donaldson himself trends over the last 3 years as bad-great-good. Where does he go next?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Or maybe it is just trying to read the crystal ball. Donaldson was great, but he was down in almost every offensive category from the year before, is getting paid more, and while still was Donaldson has a career arc that is pretty uncommon. He was virtually nothing until he was 27. Then he became MVP caliber. We have all written off guys who had shown just as much or even more up until that age. Except the Shark. There should be no limit to the value of being graced with his presence for just a mere year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Or maybe it is just trying to read the crystal ball. Donaldson was great, but he was down in almost every offensive category from the year before, is getting paid more, and while still was Donaldson has a career arc that is pretty uncommon. He was virtually nothing until he was 27. Then he became MVP caliber. We have all written off guys who had shown just as much or even more up until that age. Except the Shark. There should be no limit to the value of being graced with his presence for just a mere year. And I agree about Donaldson. At an advanced age, he went bad year, great year, good year...what's next?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 28, 2014 -> 10:13 PM) Obviously- but I'm stating an Upton extension too. You don't think Gattis can catch? No I don't - I don't think that there is any position he plays wells. He's a pretty good hitter, but nothing special. The Braves aren't extending him; it's a trade for a rent then HOPE to extend him. Sign him next year instead. He's much better than any hitter on this year's market.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 12:15 AM) The surprising part is the move to sign Butler, then the opposite side of the spectrum by trading Donaldson. It's the equivalent of those Sox fans who want the Sox to trade Alexei after we signed LaRoche. Right Keep the team competitive with short term no-comp free agents while you retool. It's a Cubs/Royals/Astros/Pirates aversion move for a big rebuild. Or avoid perpetual 85 win purgatory for a decent team. Butler didn't cost a thing in terms of talent Now you can trade a hitter you do have for other "things"

People fawn over these veteran hitters, but the As got a pretty good and very young 3B ( if he can stay on the field), a 4/5 starter that they can probably make look like a 3 in their ballpark (it's happened many times before) and a very good SS prospect. Not the greatest return in the world, but not bad either.

Reddick hasn't been able to hit lefties at all or the last 2 years. Sox have 2 situational lefty hitters already penciled in as starters. Sox need Youth No rents (unless it's for complete spare parts). Shark is someone who might be a nice signing after next season. I wonder what he really turned down from the Cubs? He's not getting near Lester/Scherzer money, but he'll want (and get) 5 years. 5/90 - something like that? Pointless to trade scarce prospects for him this year for the purpose of winning 84 games.

had the Donaldson part right. Wonder who the "others" are. Lawrie's a good ballplayer but he's never put in a full season.

Oakland doesn't have the young talent that I'd prefer. Maybe a move for Donaldson. If Williams is involved, it would be Gillaspie, Montas and another prospect who I wouldn't want to trade for Donaldson.

Don't like rents Don't like doing business with Oakland for players who have been on their major league team for more than 2 years. They don't have enough prospects for Alexei.