GreenSox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) De Aza isn't likely to garner much in July because he's not likely to be playing much. Everyone in the OF needs at bats other than him to try to improve their game, and Robin doesn't have a track record of using his bench much. The only way De Aza looks like anything other than "backup OF" in July is if someone gets hurt and he moves back to being a starter as a consequence. With De Aza, he has the best bench player he's ever had. He should use him. Keppinger should be used against lefties...if he shows he can recover and hit them again, we can move him perhaps. Ventura needs to up his game as well: stop all the mindless intentional walks, and situationally use some of these players.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Dec 30, 2013 -> 11:22 AM) What kind of player do people think De Aza could net? Feels like a reliever to me... and for the most part those can just be purchased on the free agent market currently for roughly the same money you would be paying the player netted in return for Alejandro. Otherwise, I think De Aza brings back the same middling SP prospect that he would net at the deadline. I really prefer holding Alejandro to mix and match with our right handed corner outfielders, at least until the deadline. He could bring back a decent, but blocked, prospect. A lot of people have mentioned these 3rd catchers who are blocked at Atlanta, Tampa and New York...I don't know if any of those teams need De Aza, but he could bring back one of those guys. Now I'm not that excited about one of those 3rd catchers, because I think we got one in Rule 5, although he lacks upper minors experience. We could also deal De Aza for a decent pitching prospect - probably bullpen. Or we could get some players in the low minors, but with more upside....that would be fine with me. Maybe a July deal would be better, although I have hopes for moving Dunn and Keppinger in July.

The main reason I'd trade De Aza is that he could bring something in value back. Also, his clowning on the base paths was not the ethic this team needed. Keppinger won't. Not that I wouldn't try to get rid of him, but he could have a decent year with the bat and we'd be selling really low.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) He probably can't say "Hahn told me that Nieto will be on the roster and possibly starting" And that would be based on expected performance, which he should be able to talk about.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Dec 28, 2013 -> 10:54 PM) Adrian Nieto's agent wrote a piece for Baseball Prospectus recently. In the comments section, someone asked him about Nieto's chances of sticking with the Sox. This is what he had to say: That's interesting. What could possibly be reasons he can't talk about? I'm bullish on Neito, but that's pretty weird.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 27, 2013 -> 10:41 PM) I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. They lose Leyland, but we still have Ventura. Hahn has to get his man in there before the Sox make a serious move. But the Tigers window is starting to close. Our starting staff will have at least 2 rookies or major reclamation projects (3 if you count Danks). As for Dunn, he production is still productive, although a lot of people say his mere presence is a negative on work ethic and attitude...that production should allow us to move him in June or July. We need to make a real productive trade of De Aza; and then final judgments on Viciedo and Beckham. I can see competing in 15, but not 14.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) I honestly don't see a realistic option available for catching. I think Castro is going to cost Quintana, Grandal is going to cost Erik Johnson, and Lucroy is going to cost something in between those two. The Sox aren't in a position to be making trades like that. Agree. We need to stockpile young players and those are the kind of moves that put us into this position.

The other side to look at, since we are retooling, is what player do we have that others might want. I come back to Beckham. Despite the derision he receives, he's not that bad and might have had an uptick last year (a little hard to tell, considering the injuries). A team like Toronto may want him, we may be willing to trade him, so that sort of deal wouldn't surprise me.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) There have been posters here making it out like Coop didn't like Hudson, which would make sense for the deal. Even if they didn't like Hudson, they still overpaid for Jackson. He was having a terrible year, the Diamondbacks were terrible and were looking to dump salary. To trade our top 2 pitching prospects for him (HOlmberg was our top low-minor prospect) was bad negotiation. In our position, we shouldn't have been trading for a Jackson anyway.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) Do you consider Downs and Surkamp an upgrade over Heath and Morel? I don't know, but at least we have room if we do want to add someone.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) Thing is... you never, ever draft for positional need in the high rounds of the draft. You take the best player available. There are many reasons for this, but primarily it is just that players take years (almost always) to reach the majors and be valuable, and you have no idea what positional needs the team will have at that point. So, if you draft by positional need, you needlessly reduce your talent pool and don't get as much out of the draft. Later rounds, sure, you eventually start plugging organizational holes. But not in the top 10, or really even the top half of the draft. Agree with all of the above. Plus, when you draft for current need, you start rushing players. And that's deadly.

North, considering that organizations have 100+ prospects (or at least players) in the minors, how do these organizations (like BA) or persons (Keith Law) really evaluate the strength of an organization. Do they look at the top 10, top 20 or do they purport to look at the entire system? And then I think about players like Semien, Webb and Erik Johnson...these guys are valuable to the Sox, near ML ready, yet aren't top 100 prospects by any ranking system. Do the higher ranked organizations have 5 or 10 Semiens?

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 06:28 PM) No they need "enough" things to go right not "all". Boston this season lost their No 1 and No 2 closers but their No 3 worked out. They signed Dempster as their 5th starter but he struggled so they acquired Peavy who got them through September. Middlebrooks struggled and got sent to the minors. They called up Bogarts a shortstop to play 3rd and he produced. Right They had a lot of depth, including minor league depth. We don't. And they have several hitters who are just better than any of ours can reasonably be expected to be. Let's win 80 this year, horde prospects, and then make another move next July and winter (and maybe another one this winter, De Aza).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) Now, pay more attention and increase the number of infield shifts you use, and we'll really be cooking with peanut oil. You think Ventura is down with that?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Depth and catcher I'll give you, disagree on pitching and at the moment we are overmanned in lf. In the rotation? We're starting 2 rookies plus Danks who pitched like crap last year. IN the bullpen, we're going to have rookies somewhere and/or a Veal. We're also counting on a rookie CF, 3B and 1B A lot of things would have to fall our way for this team to contend. I certainly wouldn't force it by trading prospects, or rushing prospects.

And Danks has made over twice as much money. Danks has been the better pitcher, but I'd sure like to see him pitch a lot better this year.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) Those ground ball guys, especially if they can strike a fair number of people out, should improve the quality and consistency of the pitching staff. Now, pay more attention and increase the number of infield shifts you use, and we'll really be cooking with peanut oil. Groundball guys are great if you have the infielders to move and catch them and if you have a OF's who don't have to play at the wall all game.

Lack overall depth, lack pitching, and without major improvement, will be undermanned at C and LF.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 02:55 PM) Did you not watch any games pitched by Gavin Floyd or John Danks in the last 7 years? I said he frequently gave more in trade value than he got; I didn't say he didn't win any. FWIW, McCarthy has a lower WHIP and ERA than Danks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) I think that's been the biggest problem of Theo and Hoyer with the Cubs. The only time they will make a move is when they feel they are fleecing the other team or getting a great deal. Occasionally, you have to throw a bone to other GMs...consider it an investment. People say "the Sox could have gotten more for Santiago" but, first of all, maybe they couldn't. Second of all, maybe the DBacks felt they could have gotten more out of Davidson too. It's certainly possible they had discussed that move previously and that was why the Sox threw in Brandon Jacobs too. The politics and networking of GMing, in my mind, is just as vital to being successful as acquiring the talent in the first place. You can't have one without the other. I think Theo is going to fail with the Cubs, even if their system is so good right now. Yea, I always thought that Kenny gave more than he got. The Swisher trade to Oakland had one prospect too many; should we really have had to throw in Holmberg to get Jackson who was being salary dumped? We gave Jackson to Toronto, which enabled them to get the CF they wanted. On the other hand, they were generous with us when we dumped Frasor back on them. So maybe they do this so that avenues for trades are always open. So far, I think all of Hahn's trades have been within a close range of fair value on both sides of the exchange...which is how it should be.

I think you're onto something. Look at what Hahn said re the Bellisario signing: "He is a power arm with plus stuff who profiles well for our ballpark." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/white-...p;vkey=news_cws

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) The Sox probably don't even have the requisite prospects, unless you want to give up, say, Erik Johnson, Marcus Semien, Adam Eaton, and Daniel Webb. That would be ridiculous. And honestly, he's only signed for 2 years, so now that I think about it, I wouldn't want the Sox to trade for him even if they priced him reasonably.

I would support exploring a trade for him, if the Cubs priced him for what he is: a number 3 starter.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) No offense, but what team would trade for either of Viciedo/DeAza? I mean what team would be thinking either of those guys is attractive to make a deal for? De Aza's offensive numbers aren't bad.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) I want a catcher for the future, not just for this year. I think Lucroy is the best fit. Great contract, great power and avg, good for the next 3-5 years. What if we give them: Dunn (pay half his salary so $7 million sent) Carlos Sanchez 3B Prospect (Depth now with Davidson) Trayce Thompson OF Prospect (Depth now with Eaton) Tyler Flowers (replacement catcher) Jeff Keppinger (pay half his salary for next 2 years so $4 million sent) All for Lucroy. We eat some money but save some money, have a top 8 player at an important position, and clear some at bats for young developing players in the big leagues as well as upper minors. Could Milwaukee say no to this deal? They have nothing going on and this gives them a lot for now and later, as well as some trade chips in Dunn and Keppinger who could get them more prospects. They need a total rebuild there in Brewtown. It's an interesting idea, although I don't think they'd want all that junk. Perhaps we could bring a third team in - one that needs De Aza - and throw a legit prospect the Brewers way for him. De Aza is the only tradeable vet we have with any value. Still, I'd rather us still stockpile young players.