GreenSox

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) Here's what I've been told...(one source), FWIW - Close on a couple deals (real names exchanged) - Sale is not untouchable - Several guys are on their way out just to be gone (out of favor with RV) Now that's a heck of a reason to give them away: because a manager who shouldn't be here doesn't like them.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:10 AM) The harder you throw, the harder the ball goes the other way, lol. I'm talking about you, Samardzija. MR. ND MULLET SPORTING WR 1.30 WHIP 9.29 K/9 Hector Santiago 1.29 WHIP 9.42 K/9 And yet Smardzija is claimed by some to be a low 1 high 2, and Santiago a middle reliever.

Do you mean make the case for canning Ventura, or for a particular replacement? For canning Ventura - I could get into specifics (consistently poor strategic decisions, overworking young pitchers) but the bottom line is that we're on pace for 100 or so losses, and the manager pays that price. Would there be any question if, say, a Bear Coach went 3-13? No reason that Ventura deserves a pass.

Hunter Pence's best accomplishment was getting 2 of the PHillies top prospects for the Astros when they traded him. He's an okay hitter, but nothing special. And he is woefully overpaid.

Ventura was actually offered an extension? Good lord. There's been no point in the last 1.5 seasons that he's warranted that.

Starters are more valuable than bullpen pitchers. But the key issue isn't really if pen-Axe plus starter-Santiago is more effective than starter-Axe plus pen-Santiago. The issue is that Santiago is the pitcher who has a real career in front of him. He's a good starter. he needs to be developed. I don't care if Axe sucks in the pen. Winning games this year isn't important. I like Axe, but he's 5th starter fodder. There's nothing to develop.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) You wonder if it has to do with who needs to be showcased, etc or if it is more on moves that are about to come up. Very interesting. I keep waiting for the first move to be made. they should have had this discussion a month ago. Thornton, e.g., should only be used against lefties for the next month. Ventura blew that last night. And if Hahn hadn't made it clear to Ventura what the main goals are at this point (putting as much make-up as you can on these players in order to trade them), then Hahn's at fault. And there clearly is no need to pitch Sale, Quintana, or Santiago over 110 pitches anymore this season (arguably, they shouldn't exceed 100).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 11:08 PM) Neither has Bell. Neither has Hahn, for that matter. Gillaspie was a good move, Keppinger a bad one. http://csnchicago.nbcsports.acquia-ps.com/...ite-sox-pulse-0 And what the hell is White Sox Pulse? If there was/is one, it's dead now. Well Hahn has worked in this front office for a long time. Bell has been in baseball since forever, although I have no idea what good he's done for the Sox. Ventura had been out of baseball for a decade. He was hired to be a compliant house-horse. Ridiculous. Can't argue about the moves. Heck, they probably should clean out the entire front office as well.

Hopefully, he won't have the opportunity to be scared. the White Sox need a professional, experienced manager who understands basic strategy (that befuddles Ventura), can evaluate talent and can develop talent and properly use the talent that he has. Ventura has shown none of these skills.

For goodness sakes, just release Wise. He's horrible.

Axelrod Sort of on a relative basis - performance to talent - he's pitched his rear off this year.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) With the looming trade deadline and Hahn's recent declaration that everyone is available outside Sale and Konerko, what do you think this club is going to look like a year from now? I'm thinking it'll be something like: C Flowers/Phegley 1B Dunn 2B Beckham SS Call-up/free agent 3B Gillespie/Morel LF De Aza CF Call-up/free agent RF Danks DH Viciedo Yikes! Double Yikes!

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 12:06 PM) He said that KW's idea of putting in the work for player development was going to the AFL, deciding a player was an All-Star, then singlemindedly trying to get that player from there on out, regardless of anything else. Rogers is probably just making that up to fit the facts - some of Williams' recent trades look like that's all he did when scouting prospects.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 10, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) Alexei + Crain + Keppinger + Dunn for Dee Gordon + Juan Uribe That would make the Todd Ritchie trade look ingenious. I say that in consideration that I think the prime purpose of our firesale would be to maximize the young talent added to this roster, versus helping JR's wallet.

NO trades for salary relief. Get maximum talent. The budget will be smaller next year anyway as we regroup - there's the salary relief.

I would listen on anyone, but would tend not to as I don't think the Sox will do a full-rebuild, and he's a necessary anchor to a contending club, which we will try to be in 2 years if we don't do a full rebuild.

I wouldn't shop him - I'd listen though. I am not sure how much he, or any of our pitchers, will have left in 2 years, the way Ventura over-pitches them.

Ventura's managing miscues continue to escalate. Yesterday, he's playing steal a base and pinch run in the 7th inning, playing for 1 run. The result: Jordan Danks instead of Viciedo gets the 9th inning at bat. Now that philosophy is questionable for any team, but particularly curious for this team, completely devoid of any bench bat at all (the only close, Keppinger, was also used in the 7th, and to replace a decent hitter).

The Phillies sent 2 stud prospects to the Astros for Hunter Pence. The Giants sent the Mets one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball for a 3 month rental of Beltran. Just to name 2. They happen - they aren't common - but just bide our time. You lose value when you're won't pick up any salary and you're too anxious.

Absolutely not (to answer the question posed atop this thread). And his personality and laid back attitude are fine.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 01:12 AM) I am sure the OP meant trading partners as in "teams that need players at the positions we have available to trade". The Rockies aren't going to be interested in Alexei Ramirez, which means they aren't a good trading partner. That's probably what he meant, but the Sox have had trading partners: Arizona and Toronto. Only one of numerous trades wiith those great partners helped the Sox at all (the first Quentin trade). Who would want Alexei?

The Sox don't need "trading partners". That philosophy resulted in the giveaways of Quentin, Jackson, Santos et al. to our friendly trading partners. Deal with the team that offers the the best deal, regardless of whether they are Williams' friends or in our division. Who cares if they're in our division or in our league? That's Scheuler/Williams irrelevant garbage that results in less-favorable deals, but "goodwill" to their friends who stiff us. Do the deal with the team that offers the most. Period.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:54 AM) I still think the SF Giants are a pretty good model...where they were in 2007-2009 seems pretty similar to where we are now...I remember thinking they were a mess, with the Bonds thing coming to a disastrous ending, having Zito on the books for several more years, trading Tim Alderson to Pittsburgh for Freddy Sanchez, etc...they looked very lost...and turned it around very quickly. I don't see why we couldn't pull of the same thing. I think they are because we are similar in many ways. They use their prospects and are willing to trade them, just like Williams has. The Giants will sign free agents, but don't go overboard. We probably have similar budgets. They aren't a favorite of the Sabre types, just like us. But they do one thing we don't do: they support and develop their farm system. That's what we need to do. If the Sox won't improve their scouting and player development, it won't matter. And the trades of the last 3 years have mostly been executed poorly as well (and we rarely got full value even before then, although many worked out a lot better). The Sox have one player with the opportunity to bring a haul: Peavy. Here is a 1/2 starter, with a reasonable contract for 2+more seasons. A contender absolutely should lust after him in July. They can't try to work trades with their friends, or having to get one prospect, or having to get a 3rd baseman since we're weak there. They have got to hold out for the best prospects they can get and from whomeever is willing to provide them.And if no one will, wait until next year. Extort everything you can get out of him. 2 years ago, Jackson should have brought a decent return. Williams instead dealt him to a team he was friendly with, for a questionable prospect and a middle reliever we didn't need. There was no need to fool with Toronto - he should have been dealt straight to St Louis. Peavy's far more valuable, but the execution must be 100% better.

Rios is killing our potential return in the upcoming fire sale.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 5, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) I'm not gonna blame Ventura, but I do wish Terry Francona was Ozzie's replacement. I think the Sox wanted somebody quiet after Ozzie. I think Francona would be in Hahn and KW's ear daily telling them that no manager could win with this collection of lousy hitters/fielders. I can't picture Francona going down without a fight. Robin is so passive he seems like the fall guy, the guy who has to lose quietly after Ozzie, despite the fact his players suck. I agree. The Sox haven't had a manager who the GM could trust to tell them what they needed, and could appropriately evaluate the talent on hand and the prospects, in ages. That is essential.