GreenSox

The Sox basically gave away Ryan Sweeney. The only difference between Sweeney and Bourne is 40 or so steals. Trade Quentin for 40 steals? Uh, no. We need a Pierre upgrade...but it doesn't cost your best (or 2nd to best) power guy to gain that. And those guys who slap-hit, if their OBP falls much below .340, as it does for most of them on a regular basis (including Bourne), their value erodes.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) Yeah, because we all know getting Podsednik was a horses*** acquisition. He's not worth Quentin -that's the issue. We gave away far more in talent for Pods than we received in return: but we took the salary savings and signed Iguchi and AJ. And we had a lot more power on the team then. Totally different circumstance.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 08:41 AM) If you send Quentin to the Braves for Beachy and another SP prospect, you can then turn around and ship two of the 7 seven starting pitchers on the roster to Houston for Bourn and another prospect or to the NYY for Gardner and a prospect. The Yankees may take Pierre back to be a fourth OF and pinch runner the rest of the season. You are not really replacing Quentin with Bourn, you are replacing him with Viciedo and replacing Pierre with Bourn, and that helps us a lot. At the same time you can set your rotation for the rest of the season and next season. The trade that you describe is essentially Quentin for Bourne. Quentin is a much better hitter than Bourne (Bourne sports a mighty .351 obp in his CAREER YEAR). That is not an even trade by any means. Next year, his slap hits won't get through the infield as often. Bourne has a career OBP of .335 with 11 homers. That's Podsednik. Quentin for that? Please!

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 06:01 PM) I think if you are gonna move Quentin for a pitcher that you need to have a secondary move that sends pitching to either the Yankees or Astros for Gardner or Bourn. Quentin for Bourne: yikes! Doesn't help us in any way. You do this trade to get the pitching set for next year; with good pitching, we'll at least be decent. Quentin for Beachy is a tad light for the Sox, but not that light and compared to recent trades, damn strong.

Writing "gay" in that sense means you are a p****, a sissy, a wimp. To the extent it is disparaging toward gays, it is calling them sissies (which is how many gay men affirmatively act). Overblown.

Pitchers: Brian Bruney - B- Mark Buehrle - B Jesse Crain - A- John Danks - B Gavin Floyd - C Philip Humber - A Edwin Jackson - C- Will Ohman - C Jake Peavy - D Chris Sale - B Hector Santiago - A Sergio Santos - B+ Matt Thornton - C+ Position Players: Ramon Castro - C A.J. Pierzynski - B- Gordon Beckham - C Paul Konerko - A Brent Morel - C (he's a rookie) Alexei Ramirez - B- Mark Teahen - D Omar Vizquel - D+ Brent Lillibridge - C+ Juan Pierre - D Carlos Quentin - B- Alex Rios - F Adam Dunn - F Management: Ozzie - D KW - F Walker - F Cooper - C+

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) 4 teams have been convinced of that. And the first 3 got first-hand confirmation that he wasn't; but Williams, true to form, walked right into the trap. He overpayed a team that was looking to dump salary anyway.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) Meanwhile, the White Sox, and KW in particular, seem to be lured in by the potentially dominant SP, the guy that can shut down any offense on any given day. However, by nature, these pitchers also have days where they are unable to harness their stuff and this leads to inconsistency. Mark Buehrle is the obvious exception to this, and to a lesser extent, Johnny Danks. From an offensive perspective, Kenny has brought in power hitting players who will have 30-40 home run seasons, but also will go through extended periods where they are practically useless, such as Carlos Quentin. The problem is that the scouting has been poor and the Sox have used massive resources chasing these guys with "stuff", who end up dominating very rarely. The Sox also equate "stuff" with throwing hard, and the 2 don't necessarily connect. Who in the world convinced Ken Williams that Edwin Jackson was a lead starter quality pitcher?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) It means that the Sox have the pitching staff to beat the elite teams whereas the Twins get by beating the lesser teams and really have no one to match up against the better teams in 7 game series. Maybe we TRY to do that, but we don't succeed. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Peavy and Jackson aren't "elite".

What the heck does that mean?

IT was a terrible move; bunting when behind is a bad idea, and taking the bat out of the hands of 2 of the 3 best hitters (which was obviously was going to happen) was even sillier. Yes, the outcome was fine....bad decisions sometimes lead to satisfactory outcomes, just like AAA talent would win 40 or so games in a ML season (the blind squirrel thing)

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 07:58 PM) Rios value just needs to be put in the proper context. The White Sox acquired him for 0 talent, that meant he was clearly high risk. Until he proves otherwise, you arent going to get more than 0 for him. I think the Sox would do a dance if they got 0 for him (and his salary).

The thing is, Kenny needs to go as much as Ozzie does.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) If Kenny trades Viciedo, I will institute a White Sox boycott. If we trade him for the usual declining veteran garbage, yea. But he's a limited defender, we're stuck with Dunn at DH, so if we can trade him for a good young player, I'd consider it.

KW needs to go before OG (but clean house - okay by me). KW assembled this mess.

Trading for veterans is the last thing this team should do. It's ridiculous for this team to trade for Gonzales. The team is full of holes everywhere except the bullpen. The starting pitching, while it should be good, is thin; veterann starters are getting old; at some positions, Williams and Guillen have utility-level talent starting (including at DH over 1/2 the time). The bullpen is solid The team needs young talent and better find a way to get some or it will be a series of long, long long witers on the south side.

Ozzie Guillen thinks that Dewayne Wise is a quality major league player and that's all that counts.

The good thing about Huff is that he should cost nothing in players if you pick up less than 1/2 season of salary. He's a decent run producer who would help us. Williams has had chances to get some moderate outfielders and seems uninterested. He didn't like Sweeney (basically threw him in the Swisher trade), easily could have grabbed Josh Anderson and didn't, etc. That guy from Texas is in this mold, should come cheap, but I don't see Williams wanting him.

I thought we should have traded Thornton a month ago, when he was pitching like the best lefty reliever in the league. But didn't we just trade for a reliever - and at a pretty decent price?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 08:15 PM) Well if you meant that, say that I agree. But right now, you gotta get Nix AB's, regardless of position. Plus, Nix has a better skillset to play more positions. Getz is basically limited to 2B, LF, and maybe CF and 3B. If Getz and/or Nix can play CF, or even LF, for goodness sakes put them there tomorrow.

Are there any pitchers besides Poreda on the ML radar? The Sox look well-stocked for replacements for Dye, Konerko and Thome, but beyond Floyd, Danks and MB, our future starting pitching is a mite thin.

Ozzie's right. And I blame Ozzie. Ozzie picked the worst choice, the worst player on the roster, a player who shouldn't be on the 40 man, to get the most at bats on the team.

the real problem with Wise is horrible defense. Guillen clearly either has no clue or doesn't care about outfield defense (Mack, not putting in Anderson to protect Floyd's no hit bid, his love of Owens and Wise). Dye-Wise-Quentin....the worse in baseball, compliments of Ozzie.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 28, 2009 -> 07:40 AM) Josh Kroeger can make a legitimitate argument that he deserves that spot overall based on his play, but the problem there is he can't play CF or SS adequately, and he's looked very shaky (at best) at 1B, so that can of nullifies one of the arguments for keeping him around. Not to mention the fact that Betemit is also better at 1B than Kroeger and has a track record of pounding RHP at the major league level the last couple of seasons. Just watching the game yesterday, it's fairly clear why Kroeger can't seem to make a roster: defense. He was terrible at 1B -he couldn't catch the ball. And everyone says he can't really play CF (I've never really seen it, but I believe it). His O isn't good enough for a corner spot. It really would be nice if he could play CF - and it wouldn't have to be much to be as good as Owens or Wise.

There's little point in developing nice prospects, if you are going to trade them in on some better than brian anderson mediocrity.