GreenSox

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 12:21 AM) Chris Sale: Cy Young caliber pitcher Jake Peavy: Most sought after pitcher in market Jose Quintana: 5-3 with a 3.55 ERA. He was in A-Ball two years ago. Double-A last year. Hector Santiago: 3.38 ERA despite us jerking him around. A-Ball three years ago. .221 BAA I don't see anything exceptional in that list, far beyond what many other pitching coaches have accomplished. Sale - he's great. Peavy is the most sought after pitcher on the market because the next best pitcher on the market is Bud Norris. He did his best pitching before he got here. But yes he's been good when healthy. Quintana pitched pretty well with the Yankees but they left him off their 40 man and we signed him. He's been good. Santiago - he's good. Lot of pitchers are good. I think he has a chance to be really good - we'll see how that goes. And who exactly is the "we" who has been jerking him around?????? Ahem. His biggest claim to fame is Matt Thornton. A bad pitcher he turned into a good one - great for a while. Then I'd say Floyd next. I have no complaints with Cooper. He's a good coach. He has a great reputation in baseball. He can be the pitching coach here for as long as he wants if it were up to me. But a genius.?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 11:08 PM) Why is Coop still considered a genius? Good question.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 06:22 PM) Honestly, I think I would take that deal in a heartbeat. Absolutely. That would be great for us.

Finally a suggestion from an intelligent Boston Blogger. Red Sox Would Receive: SP Jake Peavy White Sox Would Receive: P Anthony Ranaudo, 3B Garin Cecchini, C Christian Vazquez. http://www.overthemonster.com/2013/7/25/45...-for-jake-peavy

It's not the innings with Ventura. It's the number of days in a row he uses these relief pitchers. I'd like to seem him use Crain and Reed for over 1 inning more often...and earlier than the 8th and 9th. Anyway, the Sox probably can craft a conditional trade for Crain...probably should. No use keeping him.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Lol. But "Robin" has been doing this all season and still has a job. So what gives lol? It blows my mind that people still think Robin is solely in control of Chris Sale's arm. Unbelievable the stuff you read on here sometimes. You're right - he's a brilliant manager. Stellar work at the end of last year and this season. His presence on this team is yet another example of why the Sox need to stop hiring house horses for the dugout.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) Your kind of missing the point. Sure this is a wasted year for the White Sox, but it is a tremendous year for the development of Chris Sale. It's the perfect time to try and extend to build him up. If he needs to miss a start, he misses a start. The team isn't going anywhere anyways. It's pretty common to have your young pitchers build up to the 200+ inning mark over a couple years. What do you want them to do? Keep him under 200 again this year? What happens next year then if by some miracle we are competing for the division? Sale will get to mid August or early September and start to burn out because he's never been pushed. The White Sox know a hell of a lot more than any of us on this message board and I have faith they are doing what's best for Sale and for the team. What they need to do is improve his efficiency so he can throw more innings on less pitches. Building him up with 115+ inning games is wearing him out. Joe Madden never pitches his pitchers like that. Neither do most manager. Leyland, and the tigers weak pen, is an exception. But even he doesn't wear his starters out as much as the Sox do with a dismal team. I'll go with the majority in baseball over Robin Ventura.

Part of the reason that Ventura over-pitches his starters, I would think, is because the back of the bullpen is terrible. Yet, Ventura can't get enough of Troncoso, a pitcher who has never shown any ML ability. He doesn't dare pitch Reed more than an inning...he'll make him get up and pitch him 3/4 days, but not more than an inning and never earlier than the 9th.. Bags loaded in a tie game in the 6th? Bring in Troncoso. Can't use the good ones that early. Gotta save them for the 8th and 9th when no one's on base. Just an ordinary, at best, manager.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 07:00 AM) Name another elite pitcher in the majors that get shuts down for a week or two and has skipped starts throughout the season due weakness in his arm particularly his shoulder. Sale comes off the DL this year and his third start back he throws 126 pitches. Doesn't make sense. The only negative thing about Sale is whether he will stay healthy. Our organization has shown they have concerns with Sale the past 2 years. I agree. Sale has 3 starts over 120 pitches, the most in MLB. The Sox lead MLB in this category. Just more miles on the tires for absolutely no reason. Even if one doesn't think it hurts, it certainly doesn't help. Yet Ventura insists on doing it in a lost season. But Ventura, whose team has the 3rd worst record in MLB, knows better than the other managers in the league. PItching Peavy to start the 8th probably didn't hurt his value because the other GMs know their manager won't pitch him 118 innings.

It's not surprising that Law likes Peavy...the Sabre guys like Peavy. See Dave Cameron's analysis. See Oakland's interest (Beane probably checking him out to see if he can get him on the cheap). I have never found Law to be a compelling scout, but he knows his sabre-metrics, for what that's worth. Peavy's peripherals shake out better than the ERA and other more obvious stats. Bud Norris' peripherals are terrible, but his ERA is fair.

We could trade him off the DL but it would be better to get him through waivers. Not sure exactly how to do that. If someone claims him who isn't interested in a trade, that's it, right? We either let him go for nothing or take him back.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) Gregor says Sox are pushing Dunn. Yankees Why not. They have Lyle Overbay out there and are pursuing Soriano.

Rios to Pitt Alexei to St Louis Peavy to Az for prospects that I'm not going to like. Lindstrom to Detroit.

Now this is strange: Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players. They may be, but they are nowhere near ML ready.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) He had the 6th and the 7th to do that. Especially after the 6th with Fielder and V Mart coming up to start the 7th and every pitch a potential for ruining the immediately future of the franchise should a freak accident occur. No one risks that when you have the top trading chip. No one . I brought up this in the fifth inning in the game thread and was expecting Robin to do it but much much earlier. It was unnecessary. Just another in a long list of moves by Ventura that show he has no sense of the organization. Jake has hardly been an icon here anyway where a standing O is absolutely necessary. Ventura had other opportunities to do that and before 118 pitches (can't wait to see his next team put 118 on his back).

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) New Managerial Candidates: Thomas, Thome, Konerko, Dye Why not? They have about the same experience Ventura did when he got the job, which is none. Of course, it pretty much shows in Ventura's results. Woefully over his head.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 09:02 PM) Not the greatest farm. Especially position players. Are they willing to trade though? Some of these teams just won't trade anything but scraps. I'll take high ceiling players in the lower minors over busts or decliners.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 09:27 PM) RedSox fans on twitter Re trying to figure out why we want anything at all and should be wicked happy to allow Peavy to join the red cubs. Yes they seem to have that attitude that we should be honored that the Red Sox want any of our players, and we should be happy with whatever Rule 5 eligible they choose to throw our way.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 08:58 PM) Would Middlebrooks, Ranaudo, and Brentz be enough in people's eyes as a return for Peavy? It would be if I liked Middlebrooks. But he looks like a bust.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) This is like saying you don't draft Michigan wide receivers or USC quarterbacks or you don't trade for Yankees prospects. #1) The last of those trades happened 5 years ago. Durham and Foulke both occurred 10+ years ago. Times have changed. #2) The Sox got Neal Cotts. He was only good for 1 year, but he helped win a World Series. That's all I need If you got consistent duds from USC or Michigan, you probably wouldn't. Have times changed? Beane was there then and is there now. Roids were around then and around now. What has really changed? But like I said, most of that was our stupidity. We seem to make stupid decisions when we deal with Oakland. Pass. As for the Lemon trade, Kemp performed very well. Lemon was just the better player. I have no idea how the Sox couldn't see that. On the other hand, Swisher and Koch were utter duds (Swisher wasn't terrible, but played below par, and the Sox overrated him anyway in terms of talent relinquished).

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 02:24 PM) Nix on trading with Oakland. Durham, Foulke, Swisher....all ugly. Although those trades were probably generally our stupidity, still, no. I don't trust that organization. We're kind of assuming and hoping that salary dumping isn't a prime Sox motivation. I hope we're correct in that assumption.

Nix on trading with Oakland. Durham, Foulke, Swisher....all ugly. Although those trades were probably generally our stupidity, still, no. I don't trust that organization.

Well, my bad. Not a scout.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 08:01 AM) Rienzo is definitely rising over the last couple months. Rough start in AAA but has gotten his stuff together lately. He has big league rotation ability if he can harness it. Some scout I read remarked when watching the future games that Rienzo showed a pretty nasty out pitch. I just edited my earlier post to say that Snodgress really isn't rising...just sort of hanging.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 08:01 AM) Since they're both young and under control for so long, their trade value ought to be based in large part on their performance ceiling. Both of them have established in the big leagues that their ceiling is "top of the rotation left-handed workhorse". I can't imagine a team meeting that price. That's kind of an optimistic evaluation of them. I don't think you'll ever get their value in prospects...but major leaguers or near major leaguers with a team that has some surplus in an area we need? We might. But if we can't get value, we shouldn't do the trade. And honestly, there's some gap. If we have all of these top of the rotation starters, we shouldn't be one of the 3 or 4 worst teams in baseball, even making allowance for bad hitting, terrible defense, and, dare I say it, bad managing. Or maybe that's enough to be terrible.