GreenSox

And traded for each other.

I would just suggest that if the Sox pick up the option with the intent to trade him that they not announce to the world this time that they want to trade him. I realize that Giolito, in contrast to KImbrel, is actually worth the option; but announcing the intent to trade immediately reduces the trade value. Picking up Kimbrel's option was bad enough, but the public pronouncement, plus signing relievers before trading him, made the situation far worse.

That would be Hahn managing Jerry's budget: sell low on 2 young players to bring back a slightly above average older veteran. I also wonder where the "elsewhere" is that "good pitching" resides.

Not I. I'll take the Guardians front office with the Sox budget. I'd love to have Preller's skills in identifying, evaluating and developing young talent; but as for his trading...dare I suggest that it is kind of Hahnish.

Wonderful.

Aside from his absurdities (such as if walks were important for a leadoff hitter, I'd have Jim Thome lead off) Ozzie hasn't been on a major bench in a decade. That's not a serious effort to be a manager, that's a diva.

I'll take door #2: face the reality that this team isn't winning squat until they can really reshape it, which will involve both the development of a few players like Montgomery and getting rid of some contracts. So lay back in 2023, let most of the contracts of the riff-raff expire, and stay flexible and keep their eyes open to take advantage of opportunities as they arise, which they will (and which the FO likely won't take advantage of).

Did Renteria have Sox connections? But yea, nothing wrong with someone with past connections it if it's not a criteria for seemingly every important baseball-related job.

The Sox' 1,4, and 7 prospects, not to mention younger roster players Mendick and Gonzalez, are all MI. Putting any sort of investment in a 2B (via FA or trade) seems, well, extremely Hahnish. To me the downside of trading Hendriks is that he's not financial bargain, so it's just going to be a salary dump; Hahn doesn't need any more $$ for more of his bullshit signees (Sox would have had a better team last season had Hahn had less money to spend). So unless they are going to invest in a real FA OF or SP, THIS season, it's better to hold him to July when they might get something for him.

There's not much they can affirmatively do this offseason to improve (as long as RH is in charge), so I hope they just hold. Hahn should pay-off Pollock, pick up Gio's option, sign a LF with emphasis on D, sign a serviceable starter, and then take a nap the entire winter (like he did last December, but for the entire winter). Let Abreu go, and firmly plant Vaughn at 1B. Eloy at DH. Give Sheets a year as bench bat, playing a day or 2 in the field per week; hope Sosa or Gonzales proves to be a major league player; see what Colas can do. Figure out what to do with Crochet. Hope Montgomery develops to be ready for '24. Then, wake-up Hahn and July and see if he can move some players like a revived Gio, Hendriks, Lynn, and, if we get lucky, other relievers. Could also get lucky and be competitive.

Different era; and Scully did a lot of network work. Benetti is a good baseball announcer; but I think he's developing into a great football announcer. Rooney was the best PBP guy the Sox have had in the many (many) years I've followed; and they didn't muster up much of an effort to keep him.

I'm good with all the announcers, including Beckham. What would be annoying is someone with a Tom Hamilton voice quacking for 9 innings.

If that's true, then it's "welcome back, Jose!"

Oh, goodness, no. How could we even hope to carry on?

Bochy won in the Sabean/Bobby Evans era. Those 2 operated similarly to Williams/Hahn, but they were just a lot better at it. Still, it's obsolete.

That 2nd list is absolutely stunning: #25 in W/L % during his tenure.

That's the bottom line; they care about their own comfort. If the owner and/or Pres' instincts aren't to invest in analytics and development infrastructure, it's the GM's job to convince them to do so. if Hahn had any real skill, he'd have either a) convinced them to invest in necessary infrastructure and likely would have won here long before now or b) moved on to a different organization that was focused on success. This is fairly common in the corporate world: upper management producing mediocre results, and concentrating on making themselves as comfortable as possible. Doesn't change until the shareholders get pissed. Where y'at, minority owners (who actually own a majority)?

This was a well-earned punch in the nose to end this season.

Good lord, Davis. After all those nice things I typed about you yesterday. Now I read he's sore...but he pitched....

Certainly hope not. I'll take Gonzales, Sosa, et al. Adding old players, especially mediocre old players, is just asking for it.

And if he can hit 2 more tonight, he can tie Sammy Sosa for 6th!

Trading Vaughn is selling low. Let him play his position for a year and see what we have. While SP may be a need, an ace like Burns is not a top need because we have an ace and because we have no LF or RF and the starting staff is still probably thin. And Burns will cost us Montgomery and/or Colas as well. And for what - to "go for it" when we have Graveman, Diekman and Kelly in the pen, and, as I read on here, Pollock (yikes!) in the OF? (are the Sox really going with Pollock?) Trading young players is what caused this whole mess, and what causes the mess to persist for a decade.

Again, I don't disagree with the state of the pitching. I just don't think it's in the org's best interests for Hahn to trade for a starter, particularly at this stage with his "last stand" vibes. (I don't see any reason to take a "last stand" approach in 2023). Now, if he's going to get creative and really shake things up and move some of the "core" and bring in a new "core" (relatively young players) then okay. But his MO is young for old. He's likely to trade our young players or best prospects for some veteran with 2 years left, near 30, showing some subtle signs of decline, that a savvy team is peddling before he hits the floor. As or Davis Martin, I don't know what next year holds, but this year he was as good as any starter we had this side of Cease. He threw strikes, and gave up maybe a homer per 9. Not high K numbers, so maybe he got lucky; but maybe not. But he's the kind of guy Hahn would trade.

Then I'd say sign some 5th starter type. Give Lambert a try (he was mostly a starter in the minors). Hahn has made 3-5 good trades in a decade, and probably at least 15 negative trades, including a couple that were catastrophic. The odds say it's not worth the risk.

I agree with that set-up. But how the team deals with that will change with a different GM. Hahn yapping about trades has the makings of another "last stand" from Hahn, where he repeats his 2015-2016 disaster. He still has the same habits as he had back then. I certainly wouldn't trade for a starter; the cost is enormous and with Hahn's (and his hapless pro scouting department) eye for talent, the benefits minimal. I would get Colas up; let Gonzales, Sosa and the 2 or 3 other MI prospects handle 2B. Man the other OF spot with someone who can at least play D. Try to get a catcher if Grandal can't catch. And take the year to see what you really have in Vaughn when he's settled in at his real position. If things go well, and the core gets back to form, they may be okay.