GreenSox

Probably true. We see them repeating failed methods in other areas of the org. For those counting, cumulative WAR of all players drafted by Rick Hahn since he took over in 2013: 14.9. If you exclude the players with negative WAR it is 17.3.

Looks like he Sox have several pitchers in A ball who look decent and haven't flamed out yet. Hope they develop.

Collins had a swing-hitch. Why in the world this organization, with its years-long struggles developing players, continually drafted hitters and pitchers with obvious hitches that needed to be fixed, is beyond me.

He is excellent. However, Marcus Semien was not drafted when Rick Hahn was GM. Rick Hahn did trade him away, along with 3 other prospects, 2 of whom are contributors to the Oakland As, for 1 year of Jeff Samardzija, whom Hahn turned in to Zach Burdi.

I didn't say the teams are the same...the results will be the same. The comparison is simply that they are going for it before they are ready. Actually you made a better case to go for it in 2015 than exists in 2020. And you seem to have forgotten the pitching which is the entire reason they can't go for it (with apologies to those who think RF is the greatest weakness on this team). Look at last night's game. The Sox used 3 pitchers, none of whom should be anywhere near a major league team, much less a contender: Santiago, Covey, Ruiz (he's kind of a prospect, so maybe at some point). Add Osich and Detwiler and probably Cordero (although he has some skills) and that is 6 pitchers short. And the other pitchers, while good, aren't great. How can you replace 6 pitchers plus depth in one year...especially when the Sox have no one in the minors who are anywhere ready (except for Kopech and maybe Dunning, both of whom are injured).

Not traditional college. But fine, 1 in 7 years. Top-shelf work.

2021 at the earliest. Sure Hahn can "go for it" next year and we'll be back to 2015.

Top 5 pick would mean way too much serial losing at this point. If this FO can't make-do with #10 or so, then I don't know what to say (actually I do, but I've said it before).

I thought he was a JC. My mistake.

I have yet to see a single college position player drafted by this FO do anything in the majors. Accordingly, I voted Rutherford.

Okay - a Nova type is one, but they really need someone a level better than Nova. Bring in someone like Santana? Fine, but Hahn's hit rate is about 25% (lower really) on low end starters, so you better bring in 3 to be sure. Kopech? You can't count on Kopech. He may be good, me may not be. Fine, sign Bumgarner. Then it's a roll of he dice with Kopech, Rodon and Lopez to fill 2 spots. And there better not be injuries or else you get Covey or Hahn's fav Don Roach. And then there's the pen. They really have no high leverage/strikeout guys. They need at least 2. That will give a 6 man pen, which I guess you can live with (if you get no injuries). But they still have to upgrade from the Osichs at he back of the pen. This needs another year of simmering. But I'm confident in the position players and hopefully the FO will make the right decisions.

Not if the Sox intend on contending. Covey pitches on a contending team? Good one. Not having injuries is the exception, not the rule. They have 2 top 1/2 of the pen pitchers: Colome and Bummer. Marshall and Fry are good, but bottom guys on a contending team. The only sure rotation piece is Giolito. Cease is a likely. Rodon is a maybe; Lopez is a maybe, but higher than Rodon. Look at the depth on these contending teams. Sox need to match it, or at least approach it, or they are howling at the moon. And we've seen that before: Rick Hahn declared that the team was ready to win in 2014 when they weren't even close. Then he proceeded to set the team back 5 years by "going for it" 2014-16. A bad hitter doesn't kill you, especially if he can defend. A bad pitcher can destroy you.

It's crazy because a)they need far more than that and b) Hahn's record at finding pitchers via FA or trade is atrocious.

The Sox have 1/2 a bullpen: Colome, Marshall, Bummer, Fry. I like all of those guys. But none are great. The rest of the bullpen is not major league quality; yes 1 or 2 may improve, but really bad right now. That's 4 short. The starting staff: Giolito is 1. Cease is a "probably" - I'll rate him as a .75. I still think Lopez is iffy, but at worst a cinch for the pen. So I'll give him .5 for the starter and .5 for the pen. Rodon is .5 at best. Sum total, they have 2.75 starters and 4.5 relievers. That's 2.25 starters short and 3.5 relievers short. Add 5 pitchers for depth and you need 10.75 more pitchers. You cannot go in there with 5 and 8 and think you can contend. Injuries happen and performance below expectations happen. So who do they have? Kopech, Dunning all good possibilities...who else? They are short on pitchers and a TOR starter is the least of the problems. Sox have a costly history on being short pitching - they probably had top 3 overall talent in the majors from 2001-2004 and they were always a pitcher or 3 short. I'm a 3 year guy; I think a competent FO can rebuild in 3 years. And this team had a jumpstart with Sale et al to trade. Well this is year 3, which means contend in year 4. But they simply aren't ready. If they do it now, they'll look like the 2015 White Sox. They need to build for another year. And that's why I hated taking a pass on this trading season.

The one-game playoff has depressed the prospect for starter trade - by a lot. Why trade the future for a 1-game coin-flip playoff game. The trade that the Indians made were never really done much in July (Tampa pulled off a great one last July) but in December but you don't see those much in December anymore. The Sox should be doing those trades but with prospects (except the "untouchables") and for pitching prospects. This lineup will be good; the pitching is a disaster. The Sox are 10 pitchers short. Eyeing a top of the rotation pitcher is ridiculous considering the number of holes in the staff.

July is always a seller's market. Teams are looking to buy. Yes I would have. These are career year players, not elite relievers, and you take what you can get. The prices will only fall from here. But maybe he'll trade 4 prospects for one year of a player like the "elite" Samardzija in December...get ready, because that's the kind of nonsense he's going to do. He certainly won't outbid the big guns for Cole.

After electing not to participate in a seller's market, there's always next time.

I certainly am not confident that they'll land a big fish. And because of this FO's abysmal record with FAs, I'm not confident that FAs they sign will perform.

He certainly was. 2nd to best Sox hitter last season, clearly on the improve. This "Bad framing" was suspicious; as per once he leaves Cooper and his pitchers it's suddenly decent. And even if he wasn't a high price at the time, this is yet another example of "who could have known." It's Hahn's job to know. I can't think of a single trade for a veteran that he's made that was an overall positive.

Bring up Mercedes

Time for a 9th inning rally. Do it.

Good gracious the Sox don't need to trade the good prospects for "proven veterans." That approach has a 100% failure rate.

I'm more concerned about some volume in pitching over front-line starter. The Sox need 10 pitchers by my count, so some volume is necessary. they need to be good, but great can wait. The Sox have enough in their farm system beyond the untouchables for teams to like. They always do. Players that other teams can improve upon, that the Sox have mishandled, that the Sox may not value but other teams do, etc. are always there The problem is that these players don't have a lot of trade value because other teams see the hidden assets as their premium; so the Sox will have to pile on these type of prospects. The trick is for the Sox to find prospects in other orgs that have been mishandled, that have hidden virtue, etc. and not just go for the obvious at a premium price. Can they?

Castellano was supposedly "the best bat on the market", yet his numbers aren't much better than Abreu's.

Now they only need 4 more, maybe 5 (depending on how one views Marshall's dependability) and then another 2 for depth.