Reddy

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:54 AM) agreed but I dont think Floyd or Peavy are #2s either floyd is a better pitcher than danks

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:52 AM) I'm not. I'm just not going to pretend he's a guaranteed above average pitcher because he gave 100 above average innings out of nowhere last year. He's got to prove it to me. If we gave credit to people for things they couldn't keep up for the full year, then everyone would be raving about Ubaldo Jiminez on the Indians rotation. They're not. I'm not saying that EITHER! but i'd rather have his ceiling than any other 5th starter in the AL Central. Who would you rather have? and I hate Ubaldo. Think he's a crap pitcher.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) The question of whether or not Danks is a #1 may be moot if Sale attains his potential anyway yup. and i don't care that he's not a #1. Having 3 #2's a #5 and a potential #1 is fine by me.

love de aza. LOVE

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:47 AM) Technically 1/2 a season. He had an ERA of 5 after the AS Break last year. NO. That's what you're missing. I'm saying Humbers FULL SEASON was fantastic. yeah he wasn't great after the allstar break - but last year if you were to tell me that Humber would have a sub-4 era, I'd have been ecstatic. Why are you so unimpressed?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) No...they "Can be" average or above average pitchers. Only 2 of them have a track record of being above average pitchers, and even then, not amazingly far above average. Many teams can say that. you don't understand average and above average in major league baseball. a 4.00 is above average in the American League.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) The one who dominated us last week? oh so i make a basis off an entire season (humber) and it's ridiculous... but...

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) Danks is clearly not a #1 pitcher. He may be in the bottom 5 of #1s in the league. Chen Pavano Masterson Arrieta McCarthy Lewis so maybe the 7th worst.

ps this "rock solid" thing is so stupid. all i'm saying is that we have a rotation that, 1 thru 5 are all average or above average pitchers. thus, solid. most teams can't say this.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) Danks has those stretches of dominance...but this is why I'd call Danks a "Question mark" or at the very least "Less than rock solid" as a #1 pitcher. He also has stretches where that changeup just isn't on, and when that changeup isn't on, he doesn't have a good other way of getting outs. so did you consider mark buehrle rock solid?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:34 AM) I did not say that and now you're not paying attention to what I said. If people are trying to say our rotation is "Rock solid" based on what some guys did in 1 year and what other guys did 3 years ago, then you have to give similar leeway to the other rotations in this division. You cannot tell me that you'd call Philip Humber "Reliable", "Rock Solid", or "Dependable" coming in to this year. He had an incredible run last year before tiring out. But if you're asking why people would project this team to be a weak team, that rotation has a bunch of question marks in it. We could get them all answered positively and be in excellent shape this year and next year. I didn't say that either. you called Humber a guy who couldn't even break KC's 25-man. I'm simply saying I'd take him over any other 5th starter in the division. also - what's this 3 years ago thing? Danks and Floyd have had consistent success. If you're referring to Peavy - I think he might have had some injury... i don't remember.

c'mon johnny, we know it's cold but get your s*** together!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) So, Danks was unlucky by an incredibly small amount compared to the rest of his career, and the rest of his career was slightly lucky compared to league average? 25 points? that's pretty significant... is a .275 BA worse than a .300 BA?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:29 AM) Yeah, I'd take Francisco Liriano of the 5+ ERA last year over Jake Peavy of the 4.92 ERA and 25 fewer innings (which isn't much at all). BP might have projected him for a low 3's ERA, but he's not going to get there and anyone who watched him so far knows that. A low 3's ERA pitcher is an overpowering pitcher. Jake Peavy is not an overpowering pitcher, with either stuff or control. I thought you said Humber was bad - pretty sure he had a 3's ERA last year.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:26 AM) Wasted opportunity with bases loaded, one out...and back to back K's. pretty sure the indians have done the same in two innings so far - lets take what we can get

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) Danks was unlucky last year, in terms of getting "Wins", that useless stat. He was pretty regularly Danks the rest of the year. John Danks BABIP last year? .313 John Danks BABIP career? .289 he was unlucky in all aspects last year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 11:19 AM) Just in this division alone, I'll take Cleveland's top 2-3, Danks and Floyd, Minnesota's top 2, Detroit's top 3, and maybe now Bruce Chen over Peavy. He's got to learn to pitch the Freddie Garcia route where he no longer has his fastball. And I doubt he's going to do that here. No one who saw Floyd in 2009-2010 would ever call him amazingly consistent. An ERA of 7 followed by an ERA of 1 month to month just isn't normal. And Danks, well, we all saw the last inning. you would take Bruce f*cking Chen over Peavy? Max (I gave up 7 runs in 2 innings) Scherzer? Rick (I can't strike a guy out to save my life) Porcello? Fransisco (5+ era) Liriano? good lord man. you know BP has projected a low 3's era for Peavy this year right? I think they know more about projecting pitchers than we do.

dear god Viciedo that was pathetic

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) Yeah, I can argue that easily. Danks has never been a top flight starter, he's a guy who goes thorugh stretches where he doesn't have his changeup and winds up with an ERA in the upper 3's and is getting slowly worse. And last year he had a number of injury problems, which could easily be a sign that his body is starting to wear down. Floyd gives innings but is incredibly inconsistent. He's put up decent numbers because he repeatedly put up ridiculous june/july numbers. On top of that, he has a couple long term injury things. Peavy...no, he no longer can compete with anyone in the division if healthy. His fastball simply isn't there any more. He's at best an average pitcher with major health and durability concerns. Sale...Sale has great stuff, huge mechanical/injury concerns, and ought to be on a 150 inning limit this year even though he won't be. And Philip Humber, going in to last year, couldn't even make the Royals as a 6th starter/long relief guy. And he also has major durability concerns after last year. Not all of these will come true as things that will bring the Sox down, but that's not "Rock Solid" in the Tampa Bay sense, for example. I can put a serious question mark on every guy in that rotation, at least in terms of filling their role. I'm simply saying compared to the rest of the division, this rotation IS rock solid. and no, Floyd is actually AMAZINGLY consistent over the last few years. His ERA doesn't reflect it, but that's because it's an imperfect stat. FIP's of 3.77, 3.46, and 3.88 the last 3 seasons to total a 12.4 WAR. He's been much, much better than his ERA indicates. I'll give you Danks' inconsistency, but he still had a 3.77 FIP last year. again, much better than his ERA. And, when healthy, I said Peavy can compete with anyone in the division not named Verlander. Who do you like better?

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) I see where play-by-play says there were some deep fly outs. Morel/Viciedo hit it good? morel's would have been out if the wind weren't blowing in. warning track.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) I think John Danks is a very good #3 pitcher. But thats about it. Sale could be an ace. you apparently don't know what a #3 pitcher looks like in major league baseball

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 10:44 AM) I really struggle to call this rotation "Rock solid", and this bullpen has the potential to be really, really flaky since there's so much youth. That's how I'd put this team pretty far down. That said, I'm still sticking with 78 wins. really? let's look down the line. Cleveland: Masterson, Jimenez, Lowe, Tomlin, Gomez (we're better) Minnesota: Pavano, Liriano, Hendricks, Blackburn, ??? (we're better) Tigers: Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Wilk, Fister (injured), Smyly (closest, but honestly after Verlander I like all our pitchers better) Royals: Chen, Hochevar, Sanchez, Mendoza, Duffy (again... I say we're better) can you honestly argue this? we have 2 high-celing, high-floor guys in Danks and Floyd. No matter what, they won't be BAD. Sale has potential to be an ace, Peavy - if he stays healthy - can compete with any pitcher in this division not named Verlander. And Humber - even if he's a mid-4s ERA is still one of, if not the best #5 in the division. I'd call that rock-solid.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 10:37 AM) Cleveland is not set up for anything on the hitting side of things. i just do not understand how people project us to be worse than Cleveland and Minnesota. Neither can hit OR pitch. Our rotation is rock-solid, and if we even get a decent bounceback from Dunn, we've got a relatively potent lineup

i love that de aza sees so many pitches.

I love Manto.