Reddy

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:26 PM) Quoting career numbers makes no sense at all. This graph shows a different story: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?play...1,8001&wg=3 Hanley falling off a cliff after an early peak, Tulo sustaining three consecutive seasons at roughly 6 wins. So tulo's allowed a bad season and dip, and Hanley isn't? at the same age - 24-26 Tulo WAR 18.5 Hanley WAR 19.5 To say Tulo is clearly the better player is just incorrect... I'm sure Hanley's gonna bounce back in a big way this year. We can revisit it then. lol

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) For four years and this amount of money? dunno the money but they offered 4 years. listen i'm sure it wasn't THE deciding factor - but if Ozzie's not in Florida I have a hard time believing Mark would've been leaning that way at all if he had similar offers from other teams. Ozzie was probably the tipping point. They're great friends

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:21 PM) It's pretty clearly all about getting the 4th year added to the deal. Every media member was saying last night that the first team to give him the 4th year gets him. In my opinion, this has nothing to do with Ozzie being there. the Nats offered it too

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:15 PM) Thank you. yeah well betcha he doesn't go to florida if Ozzie wasn't there. s*** happens. Things change. He never made any promises or guarantees, just said what he felt in the moment. If the Cardinals had come knocking guarantee he'd have gone there in a heartbeat, but they didn't so he had to do what was the best for him and his family. And if he felt the white sox weren't gonna match, or even try to keep him, then it was his prerogative to leave. I can't fault him for any of that.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:15 PM) Man, seems like forever ago that they ran him out there as a reliever in the early 00s. We all spent 10 good years together. Thanks for everything Mark, especially in 05! 11 remember tarp sliding? that was awesome.

you gotta retire 56.

love me some MB. Always remember the perfecto, the no hitter, the kicksave glove flip - always remember 2005 and his save. Buehrle's the man.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:03 PM) I'm going to boo him when he comes back here. why the hell would you do that? that's pathetic.

now he can go hunt gators... bummed but not surprised... gonna be really weird to see him in one of those ridiculous uniforms

blow. it. up.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:48 PM) You're trying to make a case for who's the better player NOW, what happened 4 years ago is basically irrelevant. Going off a basic 3 year window dating back to 2009 your leaders in WAR at the SS position are: 18.4 Tulo 13.2 Hanley 12.2 Jeter 11.6 Alexei wOBA: .396 Tulo .374 Hanley .355 Reyes .348 Jeter UZR/150: 6.0 Tulo -7.3 Hanley Better offensively, WAY better defensively. Tulo OK i pose it this way, why don't we look at the SAME 3 year window age-wise for each player? So Tulo's last 3 and Hanley's 3 years prior to 2011. And I don't really have a site to do that on... lol, but point being, at the same age, the disparity is definitely not as drastic as you're making it out to be.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) I didn't ignore anything. 2007 (Tulo's rookie year) was a wash. Hanley was better in '08. Tulo has clearly been better the last three years. I... I just don't even know how to respond to this logic. "Aside from all the statistics stating otherwise, clearly Tulo is the better player just because I say so" cool.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) Only knock on Tulo is injuries. Outside of raw speed, Hanley really has nothing on him. you seriously just ignored the numbers there didn't you... wtf??

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) 2010 was better then I remembered, but last year wasn't. Also, Tulo is the best SS in the game, and I don't think it's particularly close. Even if I'm selling Hanley's bat short, he's below average on defense. How come A-Rod was happy to move to third at age 28? Because it was best for the team (or at least perceived to be. Ironically Jeter has been overrated defensively his whole career). Hanley is acting like a child. Reyes is the better defensive SS, and they need help at 3B anyway. No-brainer move. he's not acting like a child. He's the better player, and they're asking HIM to move. All I'm saying is I'd be just as pissed. and lets delve into the Tulo thing. I looked it up. OPS+ Tulo: 118 HanRam: 132 WAR Tulo: 23.7 HanRam: 29.3 Hmm....

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:28 PM) That would be Tulo. eh, agree to disagree on that one - but they're pretty even.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) Hanley is a bad defensive SS who has been bad at the plate the last two years. So what if you move to 3B? It makes the team better. Doesn't he want to win? I think he's being a crybaby, and his last two years don't give him the last word anymore. please tell me how .300/.378/.475 from your SS is bad. are you flippin' kidding me? Tack on 21 HR and 32 SB and that's straight up elite. That was 2010. Don't feed me this bulls*** "bad at the plate for 2 years" thing. And yeah last year was down, but he's still the best SS in the game. How many "down" seasons has Reyes had? FOUR sub-.800 OPS seasons to Hanley's ONE. come on.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:17 PM) Those guys are just a disaster down there. Perfect for Ozzie. They go and trade for Reyes and say he is the shortstop, without even seeing if Ramirez would be an ass about it (which most people would have predicted he would be). They are looking to go to a $100M payroll, banking on a new stadium, while their fan base is laughably weak and unreliable. It will be interesting to see how ugly things get for them in 2-3 years. to Hanley's credit - the Marlins are dips***s for signing a WORSE player to play SS than the one they already have. If I'm Hanley I'm pissed too.

I'd love me some Reddick on this team. If we can swing it, I'd love to see something like this happen. good stuff.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) Except he has totally different stuff than Mark and throws much harder. but otherwise they're identical.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) Hell, for this trade to be a success, he has to turn into a high quality Major League starter, in my opinion. You don't trade a guy who has proven he can succeed at the Major League level in one of the more difficult roles, especially when you have him cost-controlled at a reasonable rate, and that you possess NOW, for some guy who has a chance to be a quality Major Leaguer, in the future. As far as I am concerned, they had better hit a home run on this deal or it's a horrendous trade. seriously? there's no such THING as proven among closers and relievers in general. If you play fantasy baseball you know that - every year the list of "top closers" is dramatically different. Why? Because they have no lasting power. They'll be good for a couple years then fall off the map. Who's to say Santos isn't exactly the same as the majority of closers out there?

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:57 AM) I find it funny that some of the people here b*tching that we didn't get 7 players for Santos are the same ones in the other thread saying we would be lucky to get a bag of balls for Danks. Most closers have a short shelf life. With Reed in the wings, I just hope the guy they got is as good as they hope. for the first time maybe ever, we agree.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 02:17 AM) I personally thought moving Santos was a good idea. I don't believe the return was good enough. Either way, most of Kenny's acquisitions over the past few years have been terrible and I tend to believe this is another one of those bad moves. I believe Santos will thrive in Toronto and hopefully Molina won't languish in the minors or be relegated to mop up duty and can actually become a viable middle of the rotation starter. I'm sorry. If you can name another reliever who has been lights out for seven years straight, who profiles like Santos. Please tell me. And obviously, you should've told Kenny too. End of story: relievers are NOT worth a lot. They're fickle. They can be Cliff Politte. They can be Neal Cotts. They can be Dustin Hermanson. They can be guys who are brilliant for a year or two and then fall off the map. If you have the opportunity to SELL HIGH on a guy and get a great young arm who could potentially start - you do it. You don't wait till 2 or 3 years into the contract when he realizes he's not good. Then what do you have?

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:12 AM) If other possible suitors were not contacted then it was brutal. If the Orioles were contacted and they offered a package of equal/less value then no it wasn't brutal. Why if you're willing to move a player you don't try to get the absolute most for him you can? Again, this isn't necessarily a critique on the player received, rather on the common sense notion that each player moved should be moved for the absolute best package, which may not have been the case in this instance. because we werent shopping him! we weren't looking to trade him. We wanted Molina, and when AA said Santos, we pulled the trigger. You can't say "oh please give me a few hours to see if I can get a better deal". What kind of negotiating is that? If you feel you're getting a good deal, based on all the evaluations you've been making the last however many years, you take it. THAT'S the game. That's how it works.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:08 AM) But as soon as you're willing to move a player, then you exhaust all opportunities, including calling the Orioles. Brutal trade. it was far from "brutal"

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 01:31 AM) haha, YES! and that is why primary voters liked Hermain Cain, he is hilarious. is it really hilarious for a presidential candidate to be quoting the pokemon movie as his source of inspiration? so glad this idiot's gone.